Deep red strips.

[TheOther]

This is what I'm looking at. Run 4 with my 4 bar 600w system.
View attachment 36931

Those are EpiLed 660nm and 730nm, Samsung doesnt make those. No such creature, the dots on the chips are the telltales. I picked up some of these.
Also not copper boards, they are aluminum. Not bad boards, just not accurate descriptions at all.

 

[TheOther]

Every White LED has a different light output peak, so 3000k will require a different amount of red vs 4000k. Depending on where your light spectrum peaks will determine how much red will trigger growth.

Too much red will lead to elongation, thinner stems and pass these traits to its offspring. Good to know for breeders...
It shuts down JA immune response, increases Botrysis susceptibility and slows Flv electron transport which causes more light burn and stress. Applying correct ratio of blue will keep it open, allowing more photosynthesis to occur with PS1 and PSII functional.
Similar to applying 730nm far red to 660nm for the Emerson Effect, using UV and blue as controls for the 660nm red is dependent on ratios to each other.

PS1 and PSII states can be changed by the ratio of blues and red to visible light and each other, so low wattage LEDs placed lower to the canopy should be able act as triggers for sleep, fruit growth and plant development without burning the plants.
Dutch greenhouses are doing this with sunlight and red/far red supplementals , good results except for mutation of offspring noted earlier.
You just have to modify the percentage of red/blue/uv/far red that hits the receptors to get the growth desired, without the harmful effects of overexposure to UV and red.

 

[TheOther]

All the studies are short day plants, it doesn't natter if its tomatoes or a weed.
Links below for heavy reading...

Electron flow from PSII to PSI under high light
End-of-Day Far-Red Light on Tomato Plant Growth
Low Red/Far-Red Ratios Reduce Resistance to Botrytis
Light Signaling-Dependent Regulation
Far-Red Spectrum of Second Emerson Effect
Far-red light ratios improve tomato tolerance to salt stress

 

[Boybelue]

Jeez @TheOther looking at these diagrams I might need one of those books for dummies! Lol. But seriously do you have a link that will help to better understand this.

 

[Turpman]

Never would have thought it would transfer to offspring. Interesting stuf.

 

[TheOther]

Never would have thought it would transfer to offspring. Interesting stuf.

Lower PGR5 protein releases ultimately causes P700 reaction in PS1 to be inactive, passes the genetic mutation to progeny.

 

[TheOther]

Another good study, has pictures of plants instead of crayon drawings I can't understand.

Growth with various spectrum of light-emitting diode lights

"...The Fv/Fm was significantly lower in the treatments that
did not include B LEDs. Moreover, the Fv/Fm increased as
the proportion of B LEDs in the RB and RGB LED treatments..."

Blah blah blah, way too many words! I just need it simpler.

Right now, I just have a 660:720 Emerson board, that's pretty straightforward,one per 2x2 area.
Turn on before lights out, spiking 660 and 720, change PS1 and PSII states, plant goes to sleep.

Next is adding Cutter Strips (24vdc@660nm) (34v@470nm) to a few Bridgelux 3500K rigs.
Just have to cipher out whether to add two blue strips per 2x4 area, or one blue, driven harder at 1050ma with a diffuser will work for 2 red boards per 2x4. I just cant see getting the ratios right with one source of illumination vs 2

Plan A is to use dimming drivers (red and blue spikes as needed during growth cycles) then turn off ~45 min before lights out, then kick on the Emerson board 15 min later to run its night cycle. Using a separate 720nm far red channel would be preferred, just simpler with the dedicated board at this point.

 

[TheOther]

HLG and others are adding 660nm reds to compliment their white LEDs. Couple years from now they will all have dimmable, programmable channels, we wont have to do this.

I had some low output RGB striplights running vertically on hanging tubes, and anecdotally got good benefit from them. Definitely a boost in lower and mid growth, but a dense canopy limits the effective range. It was fun to see how fast the different growth patterns emerge using it.
The problem with triggering the levels this way is they don't hit as many receptors, those are aligned with the bright overhead light. I don't see the benefit of shade avoidance to the upper canopy doing this.
My winter cactus garden likes them fine, nice for that canopy.

Some studies had supplemental LED lighting hung lower above the canopy.
That seems like it would work for short term low dose UV/far red and cuts costs for equipment/electricity, but makes rigging overly complicated for small operations like tents.

 

[spyralout]

Is there such a thing as too much red? Thinking of adding those strips from eBay to a 5x5 along with 2 T5 UV Agromax or Solacure. Unless those emerson boards @TheOther mentioned are just as affordable and better.

 

[spyralout]

Yes. There is. Least imho. Lmfao
I probably can't explain it right, but yes. Lol
Too much red in relation to the blue and other colors will get stretchy plants.

How would one go about calculating that for their space? I saw those links that TheOther posted up there, but a lot of it whizzes right past my stoner ass mind. It's like cracking the safe of grow light nirvana lol.

 

[TheOther]

I burned out too many brain cells reading all that jargon. My head hurts still.

Unless you have an expensive multi spectrum light meter, you will have to guess.
10% RED to PAR in watts seems effective, that seems to be what mfgr's are adding.
The Cutter RED/Blue strips, 1 per 2x2 area, should exceed that.

I just need the color spike to trigger growth and regulate it. If you can see a background tint in the tent, then the plant can also. I'm just going to eyeball during veg/ stretch and try to adjust the levels.

If I had to pick a LED to work with all over again, it would be the OPTISOLIS.
This has such a flat range, it would be easy to adjust the ratios of light.
This has convenient dips in output right at 470nm and 660nm.

 

[spyralout]

I burned out too many brain cells reading all that jargon. My head hurts still.

Unless you have an expensive multi spectrum light meter, you will have to guess.
10% RED to PAR in watts seems effective, that seems to be what mfgr's are adding.
The Cutter RED/Blue strips, 1 per 2x2 area, should exceed that.

I just need the color spike to trigger growth and regulate it. If you can see a background tint in the tent, then the plant can also. I'm just going to eyeball during veg/ stretch and try to adjust the levels.

If I had to pick a LED to work with all over again, it would be the OPTISOLIS.
This has such a flat range, it would be easy to adjust the ratios of light.
This has convenient dips in output right at 470nm and 660nm.
View attachment 43861

Thanks for the insight

 

[spyralout]

Like @TheOther said without a spectrometer it's a guessing game as to what is actually produced.
One can make educated guesses though.
These ratios are a general consensus from various articles I've read etc. I don't have the tools to actually test though.
In veg a 3 to1 ratio is a good one, going up to 8 to 1 range for flowering.

Thanks Jesse. We're talking watts right? Maybe a good idea to wire a pot?

 

[Turpman]

Yes if you have a dedicated PS for sure a pot. Or just plan it to have the correct wattage.

 

[spyralout]

Yes if you have a dedicated PS for sure a pot. Or just plan it to have the correct wattage.

Pot for pot light it is then. I'll give soldering a shot, never did any true soldering before but can't be too bad...

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

Like @TheOther said without a spectrometer it's a guessing game as to what is actually produced.
One can make educated guesses though.
These ratios are a general consensus from various articles I've read etc. I don't have the tools to actually test though.
In veg a 3 to1 ratio is a good one, going up to 8 to 1 range for flowering.

Now, if too much "red" spectrum can cause DNA damage and will carry the trait to it's offspring. Who would have "thunk" it?
Glad I didn't go overboard with the "reds". lol

 

[badmofo529]

You guys have any opinions on the supplemental bar HLG has? Was thinking about picking one up for the tent. I was gonna diy something, but everything I've looked at usually comes within $20-30, and that's worth not having order from 3 different places and having to put it together.

HLG 60 SUPPLEMENT

HLG SABER High efficiency waterproof Full Spectrum LED BAR. Each Bar can be powered up to 120 watts. Passive cooled 36V design and 4ft length provides a great spread with minimal shadows. Does not include power supply.

horticulturelightinggroup.com

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

You guys have any opinions on the supplemental bar HLG has? Was thinking about picking one up for the tent. I was gonna diy something, but everything I've looked at usually comes within $20-30, and that's worth not having order from 3 different places and having to put it together.

HLG 60 SUPPLEMENT

HLG SABER High efficiency waterproof Full Spectrum LED BAR. Each Bar can be powered up to 120 watts. Passive cooled 36V design and 4ft length provides a great spread with minimal shadows. Does not include power supply.

horticulturelightinggroup.com

Seems a little "pricey", but I'm sure it's top of the line parts, if you are handy, you could build one for maybe 1/2. Or less. If $$$ is no object, hell yea, buy it! lol
Are you just adding for extra photons?
If you are vegging,
I like my 8 tube T5 for seedlings and early veg. (5600K bulbs) 432 watts wide open.
4 bulb set up would be nice.
I bought Samsung supplement strips on Ebay. 3x (16 or 18" ?) for 60 bucks.

 

[Punisher84]

Seems a little "pricey", but I'm sure it's top of the line parts, if you are handy, you could build one for maybe 1/2. Or less. If $$$ is no object, hell yea, buy it! lol
Are you just adding for extra photons?
If you are vegging,
I like my 8 tube T5 for seedlings and early veg. (5600K bulbs) 432 watts wide open.
4 bulb set up would be nice.
I bought Samsung supplement strips on Ebay. 3x (16 or 18" ?) for 60 bucks.

I guess I need to post in the light build thread cause I added up a bunch of parts and by the time I got all the little shit to build a light I’m within a few bucks of buying a timber.

 

[badmofo529]

Thats what I'm kind of seeing as far as supplementals go. By the time I get a heatsink and hangars, I'm within $30 of just buying the prebuilt. By the time I factor in shipping cost from buying from 3 different places it's pretty close.

If I was adding them to a fresh build I would diy all the way, but since I just want to hang a bar in between my 2 lights the prebuilt I can just toss right in seems like a nice option lol.