Are tinctures any good?

[icebear]

I just go by the fact that is has the poison control # on it in case you ingest it. I love your insight on this and other stuff you have taken the time to share. I just don't see any reason to chance it. Might be cumulative like mercury exposure. Might be fine.

If you have something in the alcohol interacting with it - infusing with it - does the bad stuff all evaporate? Is any encapsulated in the oil or emulsified into it? I have no clue. But your liver is a bad place to filter it out like you said - rather not

Isopropyl alcohol is not a cumulative toxin. And the human lethal dose is "as low as 240 ml"; I'm assuming a healthy adult here.

So you should have no infusion/encapsulation/residue issues.

 

[curious2garden]

I just go by the fact that is has the poison control # on it in case you ingest it. I love your insight on this and other stuff you have taken the time to share. I just don't see any reason to chance it. Might be cumulative like mercury exposure. Might be fine.

If you have something in the alcohol interacting with it - infusing with it - does the bad stuff all evaporate? Is any encapsulated in the oil or emulsified into it? I have no clue. But your liver is a bad place to filter it out like you said - rather not

You're welcome H.A.F. and I don't mean to be argumentative. Taking something with an abundance of caution is never a bad idea. You do realize there are huge government warnings about cannabis too right?

 

[curious2garden]

Isopropyl alcohol is not a cumulative toxin. And the human lethal dose is "as low as 240 ml"; I'm assuming a healthy adult here.

So you should have no infusion/encapsulation/residue issues.

In an untreated person 4-8 g/kg (you know your poison by its dose, the more you weigh the safer you are)

 

[Saboo the Shaman]

^^This is great information, both from a financial and a medical perspective. Much appreciated @icebear,

I always keep 99% iso on hand for cleaning pipes, so I don't even have to go out to get the supplies.

 

[H.A.F.]

Not gonna argue. I agree that water evaporates with or without alcohol. We're talking ppm's here. If you leave out your 500ppm water those minerals and whatnot stick around.

But - adding keif or bud to the alcohol also changes the chemistry as it infuses with the stuff on the flowers. I am not a chemist. I just don't see taking chances when there are other options. You also have to assume this is not a one time dosage for the user?

Taking something with an abundance of caution is never a bad idea. You do realize there are huge government warnings about cannabis too right?

You are quite correct, and open discussion is fine and dandy with me! There is more than anecdotal info about wood alcohol causing blindness. When the discussion evolves into the "Lethal dosage" of a poison - hard pass

 

[Saboo the Shaman]

I greatly appreciate IB and C2G sharing their knowledge, as well as providing their credentials. There is so much unsubstantiated 'stoner science' online and so little from 'stoned scientists' like yourselves

 

[icebear]

In an untreated person 4-8 g/kg (you know your poison by its dose, the more you weigh the safer you are)

This (and the greater difficulty to a prospective kidnapper) is the best reason I've heard to eat dessert early and often.

 

[curious2garden]

Not gonna argue. I agree that water evaporates with or without alcohol. We're talking ppm's here. If you leave out your 500ppm water those minerals and whatnot stick around.

But - adding keif or bud to the alcohol also changes the chemistry as it infuses with the stuff on the flowers. I am not a chemist. I just don't see taking chances when there are other options. You also have to assume this is not a one time dosage for the user?


You are quite correct, and open discussion is fine and dandy with me! There is more than anecdotal info about wood alcohol causing blindness. When the discussion evolves into the "Lethal dosage" of a poison - hard pass

Wood alcohol and Isopropyl have different metabolic pathways so the effects are different. You don't go blind from massive Isopropyl ingestion like you do with Methyl alcohol. Iso hits the kidneys and liver harder while methanol focuses on the mitrochondria in the optic nerve.

 

[H.A.F.]

Fun fact - still hard pass LOL

In 1920, Standard Oil first produced isopropyl alcohol by hydrating propene. Its major use at the time was not rubbing alcohol but for oxidation to acetone, whose first major use was in World War I for the preparation of cordite, a smokeless, low explosive propellant.

 

[icebear]

Not gonna argue. I agree that water evaporates with or without alcohol. We're talking ppm's here. If you leave out your 500ppm water those minerals and whatnot stick around.

But - adding keif or bud to the alcohol also changes the chemistry as it infuses with the stuff on the flowers. I am not a chemist. I just don't see taking chances when there are other options. You also have to assume this is not a one time dosage for the user?


You are quite correct, and open discussion is fine and dandy with me! There is more than anecdotal info about wood alcohol causing blindness. When the discussion evolves into the "Lethal dosage" of a poison - hard pass

The lethal dose of water is as low as half a gallon.

 

[curious2garden]

Not gonna argue. I agree that water evaporates with or without alcohol. We're talking ppm's here. If you leave out your 500ppm water those minerals and whatnot stick around.

But - adding keif or bud to the alcohol also changes the chemistry as it infuses with the stuff on the flowers. I am not a chemist. I just don't see taking chances when there are other options. You also have to assume this is not a one time dosage for the user?


You are quite correct, and open discussion is fine and dandy with me! There is more than anecdotal info about wood alcohol causing blindness. When the discussion evolves into the "Lethal dosage" of a poison - hard pass

Same here! I have enjoyed our conversations. I'm great with not agreeing. We all have to do what we feel is right for us and our loved ones. My limits won't be yours etc... there's no one right way and I think all to often we forget we can like each other while being different.

Great point H.A.F.

 

[H.A.F.]

The lethal dose of water is as low as half a gallon.

Nice
You can drown in a tablespoon from what I hear

 

[curious2garden]

Fun fact - still hard pass LOL

In 1920, Standard Oil first produced isopropyl alcohol by hydrating propene. Its major use at the time was not rubbing alcohol but for oxidation to acetone, whose first major use was in World War I for the preparation of cordite, a smokeless, low explosive propellant.

Oh no you had to say explosive. Good luck getting rid of the Bear now! Bear loves his energetic materials. His parent's porcelain didn't care to much for them though!

 

[curious2garden]

Nice
You can drown in a tablespoon from what I hear

Yes water can be incredibly dangerous. I try to stick to single malt scotches for purely safeties sake.

 

[icebear]

Nice
You can drown in a tablespoon from what I hear

Must be a large tablespoon

Oh no you had to say explosive. Good luck getting rid of the Bear now! Bear loves his energetic materials. His parent's porcelain didn't care to much for them though!

The dentist's house is fortunately not on that scoreboard. The rocket (overloaded with my finest energetic recipe) went thump just in time.

 

[icebear]

Fun fact - still hard pass LOL

In 1920, Standard Oil first produced isopropyl alcohol by hydrating propene. Its major use at the time was not rubbing alcohol but for oxidation to acetone, whose first major use was in World War I for the preparation of cordite, a smokeless, low explosive propellant.

You gotta love catalytic reactions on a material they used to flare off at the refinery.

Acetone is peculiarly good at dissolving nitrocellulose (guncotton) which is the base for cordite, gelignite, and the more modern smokeless powders.

Before that process, acetone was produced by a fermentation process. That made it expensive.

 

[Saboo the Shaman]

The lethal dose of water is as low as half a gallon.

Sorry, but I must correct you in this case. The lethal dose of water is zero(just wait a few days).

 

[H.A.F.]

I guess my thing is - if you had to process weed with alcohol before it got you high, I'd probably be open to more options, and the process would probably have been investigated thoroughly.

If you want the tincture to work, you need to decarb whatever you put in it correct?
Since I can eat that as is and get high, an alcohol tincture (or EVOO) is to try and enhance that.

You can mix the keif with 80 proof, but I don't think it completely infuses or something. I read about this somewhere, it made sense, I cleared it from my brain to make room for other stuff.

But if you use grain alcohol to start with, you should be able to use regular alcohol as the vehicle correct? If you wanted to use whiskey, or some fruity vodka or something, that should fix it right?

 

[curious2garden]

I guess my thing is - if you had to process weed with alcohol before it got you high, I'd probably be open to more options, and the process would probably have been investigated thoroughly.

True

If you want the tincture to work, you need to decarb whatever you put in it correct?
Since I can eat that as is and get high, an alcohol tincture (or EVOO) is to try and enhance that.

There's a different metabolic pathway for metabolism of an alcohol extracted tincture versus metabolism of an oil extraction. If you have an extremely effective CYP450 system a fat based edible can be stripped of almost all effectiveness. That is one reason a small number of people taking oil based edibles report no effect.

Another potential reason for not getting high is inadequate decarboxylation.

You can mix the keif with 80 proof, but I don't think it completely infuses or something. I read about this somewhere, it made sense, I cleared it from my brain to make room for other stuff.

But if you use grain alcohol to start with, you should be able to use regular alcohol as the vehicle correct? If you wanted to use whiskey, or some fruity vodka or something, that should fix it right?

It doesn't matter whether you use grain or iso in the extraction phase as long as you evaporate your extract. As for the dilution I don't think you can use a lower proof alcohol. I usually dilute mine with 90% Everclear. Let's ask @icebear

 

[icebear]

I guess my thing is - if you had to process weed with alcohol before it got you high, I'd probably be open to more options, and the process would probably have been investigated thoroughly.

If you want the tincture to work, you need to decarb whatever you put in it correct?
Since I can eat that as is and get high, an alcohol tincture (or EVOO) is to try and enhance that.

You can mix the keif with 80 proof, but I don't think it completely infuses or something. I read about this somewhere, it made sense, I cleared it from my brain to make room for other stuff.

But if you use grain alcohol to start with, you should be able to use regular alcohol as the vehicle correct? If you wanted to use whiskey, or some fruity vodka or something, that should fix it right?

You need high-proof alcohol. It has to be 90% or better, and that is 180 proof as used for grain alcohol.

A little bit of water has a disproportionately big harmful effect on the alcohol solvent's ability to dissolve the goodies. Bacardi 151 still isn't strong enough.

I've only used 95% ethyl and 91% isopropyl alcohols. I dewax using 100% methanol, and as soon as I add water to that, ba-whoosh! the oil crashes out.