Can Air Pumps be Replaced and Other Cool Ideas to Supercharge Your Hydro Grow

PhatNuggz

Active Member
Been growing hydroponically for about 8 years now, and tried HPA, LPA, Drip, F & D. There are things about each that I like and things that I think can be improved, and have experimented in that pursuit. One thing they all had/have in common is air pump/stones in the rezes. This means CO2 is being sucked in causing pH to rise on a daily basis. My quest includes eliminating air pumps that run 24/7 as well as increasing DO.


To that end, I bought a O2Grow 2020 3 grows ago, but ran into self inflected wounds that prevented me from trying it. Even if it works, IMHO, I think the rez should be circulated periodically as well. I made several DIY set ups but was over complicating it attempting to incorporate a waterfall above the water line. Recently, it occurred to me there is a better simpler way. And so, I developed a method that I can use in SWC as well as any other size rez. Pics in my next post as this photo upload system only provides for 5 photos


My grow space has heat issues, notably open beam ceilings which are fine in the 'winter' but it's hot and humid here 8+ months a year: my grow space is a hot house due to the radiant heat. Running AC is an option, but mine is at least 28 years old and very inefficient adding >$200 a month to my non ac month bills! It's been in the mid 80s all 'winter', with a couple cool days here and there.

I first started out using organic nutes, but the heat made them a bad idea. I tred a variety of nutes, including Emerald Harvest full line, but have gone back to the simplicity and excellent results using Hydroponic Research V + B. One important benefit is that until bloom additives are incorporated (which are dark), the rezes are crystal clear, making it easy to see what's what.

First the problems with each from my experience;

HPA can be amazing but only when the ambient temps are maintained below ~ 80*s. When I first started apparently it was cooler months, and it worked well until flower, then crashed. The ambient heat caused the RH inside the root chamber to jump killing the very delicate root hairs. When the parameters were good, the roots were amazing, looking like big balls of cotton candy.

Drip Next I tried top feed drip using Air Pots, but instead of soil mix, I used lava rock and Hydro Halo drip rings. The ring hole kept clogging, so I drilled them out, but they still clogged. Turned out algae was building up inside the rings, which required regular cleaning. Im guessing the nutrient solution was not completely draining after each feeding, and that combined with the room heat caused the algae. It wasn't the LED light which was well above the rings. Issues aside, I had excellent results with this (see images)

Flood & Drain I then tried F & D, but fought mosquitoes throughout that grow. Since mosquitoes easily find their way into my house and seek out standing water, I had to put lids on the plant totes as well as the rez, but they were already established. The mosquito larvae was entrenched in the plant totes. One benefit of the lids is less evaporation. Issues aside, I had excellent results with this (see images)


(to be continued)
Deep Water Culture/Shallow Water Culture

Low Pressure using large GPH pump + HPA Mist heads


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PhatNuggz

Active Member
Deep Water Culture/Shallow Water Culture

One of the simplest hydro methods is using a air pump and air stones.

I tried single, double and finally 4 air stone pumps in an effort to create more moist air above the water line, to prevent the roots from drying out (also to simulate the misting air created by HPA), One problem is as the ambient air is sucked into the nutrient solution introducing CO2, which causes pH to rise on a daily basis, another is the ambient air being sucked in is typically warmer than the recommended nutrient temp and can lead to various root issues

Most people use DWC, but I find it unnecessary. IMO it is better to use SWC to start seedlings or clones, but not to grow plants to maturity. Better is to transfer the plants from SWC to F & D once the roots are well established. This allows me to better control the outboard rez temps, and to empty and replenish/refresh the nutes without disturbing the plants.

The plant pictured above is 33+" its entire life in ~ 2 gallons of solution (see last 3 pictures above). Here I have to rotate blue ice packs to keep the temps low. In my effort to eliminate the air stones, I developed the plastic water bottle with holes drilled below the water line + 80 gph pump on a deep cycle timer 3 minutes on and 3 hours off that both aerates and circulates the solution without introducing CO2.

Another method to start would be fog ponics, but on a deep cycle timer to minimize the high heat it quickly generates. I haven't read this yet, but likely for mature plants, but it probably is as complex as normal HPA which requires a pressure tank, solenoids...

 
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PhatNuggz

Active Member
Fog Ponics

While this holds great promise, there are 2 main issues

Heat- it functions by vibrating a disc ultrasonically, which quickly becomes hot. If left on too long it heats the nutrient solution beyond temps the roots can tolerate, and so must be used with a deep cycle timer

PPM/EC every unit I bought, the ceramic discs all burned up pretty fast, so I bought extra discs. In researching why the discs burned up so fast, it turns out that the discs cannot handle more than ~ 150 ppm. This is plenty good for seedlings and clones, but not for a full grow. I may try this again, now that I understand the parameters within which it could work well. Quite possibly a better alternative to bubble ponics
 

PhatNuggz

Active Member
It occurred to me that I need to start adding bloom boosters. I still have enough Emerald Harvest Bloom A & B, so I mixed some and added it to my rez, but will switch to it in a couple weeks

She's stopped stretching at 33" but man the bud sites are everywhere😍

I took 4 clones about a week ago, staggered 2 then a couple days later, 2 more. The first 2 have lots of roots; the other 2 one has some roots.

I was also gifted 10 Hindu Kush seeds. Looks like I can finally get back to Perpetual , that is at least until late May when it gets too damn hot here. My electric bill is $200+ more during summer, and it's just not worth it

New pic of her + clone roots

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Jewels

Bon~Fire
Have you had a peek into my journal Phat ?
I just finished a great first run with no air pump.
She ran on 180 watts, plus lights.
Given, I have a climate advantage that supplies me with a 'free' chiller, 'free' ac.
By any name , bubbly water circulating over roots is tough to beat.

Aqua +CO2 = carbonic acid
CO2 in solution drives down Ph

Theoretically, I could inject compressed CO2 into the res. This would lower the Ph of my hard water, whereby enhancing uptake. Circulating the water would off-gas the CO2, making it available to the stoma, whereby enhancing growth. Is win win ?
 

PhatNuggz

Active Member
Have you had a peek into my journal Phat ?
I just finished a great first run with no air pump.
She ran on 180 watts, plus lights.
Given, I have a climate advantage that supplies me with a 'free' chiller, 'free' ac.
By any name , bubbly water circulating over roots is tough to beat.

Aqua +CO2 = carbonic acid
CO2 in solution drives down Ph

Theoretically, I could inject compressed CO2 into the res. This would lower the Ph of my hard water, whereby enhancing uptake. Circulating the water would off-gas the CO2, making it available to the stoma, whereby enhancing growth. Is win win ?
I have not been to your thread, but I will Need a link please

I agree that DO bubbling directly under the roots is super (that's how I roll). However, when done with an air pump, CO2 is also being introduced which causes MY pH to increase from 6.0 (flower) to ~ 7.0 in 24 hours. Some growers are injecting pure O2 to eliminate the CO2

Im pretty sure that as long as the rez solution has sufficient DO 24/7 throughout, the roots will benefit equally. Now that said, I see stagnant solution as a potential problem, So...

I am circulating the rez for 1- 3 minutes every 3 hours via the plastic bottle + platonic solids connected to a 80 gph pump. In my 2.5 gallon rez, each on cycle the rez shoots through it ~ 3Xs, so it should provide sufficient DO

hth

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Jewels

Bon~Fire
a link please
Video here
Schematic on post 48

RDWC, standpipe drain, venturi injection top fed. No air pump, no Chiller, no timers, tech, Bubkas, nadas.
Plug - play.
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'Typical RDWC', undercurrent/ whatev's, ALWAYS have poor designs maximizing surface area. Surface area is where oxygen is exchanged.
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With three inch drains, the pipe can be manipulated to be half-full. This adds .25 sq.ft. per running foot.
Follow the blue line,,,
This 5 bucket system, 24" on centre, utilising a 2 X 3' tote res. , would have over 10 sq. ft. MORE water surface area than a typical RDWC, utilising a 'barrel' res.
 

KMOG

Always rockin’ at half mast
If res temps are too high, it doesn’t matter how much air you pump in, you’re going to have problems arise at somepoint. It’s not really a set temp though, some plants are ok with hotter root zones than others, even on a cut to cut basis. There is a pretty easy solution (probably not perfect but not works), by sticking a water pump or sprayers in and keeping the root mass out of the water completely by doing hand or drip feed. Changes the system dynamic a bit, but eliminates high res temp problems to some extent in dwc.
 

Greenthumbskunk

PICK YOUR OWN
I used a RDWC set up using a higher pressure waterfall type of setup.
I had a larger water pump and pumped water that would spray a stream of water into the 27 gal containers i was using forcefully. Wasnt a waterfall but a pentrating spray causing churning of the water. This top feed into the containers was fed back through using 3" pipe.
Worked fine for adding oxygen. Ran into 2 problems, first was the roots didnt stay bunched up in a ball like airstones and they liked to get blinto the pipes. That was just added maintence which wasnt a biggie until i was growing some 1.5lb plants and was too heavy to lift. The other which was a killer literally was where i live the power goes out quite a bit and the power went off and all my roots drowned. Ruined it. Did it again 6 months later in a ice storm ruined that grow.

Switched back over to airtones, power goes off i have some small solar panels and batteries that i use to power them. Cant do it with that big waterpump.

If u live in an area where the power never goes off then the forced pressure works really good.

Also catfish farms around here use drums that spin and the action causes oxygen to be mixed in. Just the simple action of disturbing the surface tension adds oxygen.
 

Jewels

Bon~Fire
Just the simple action of disturbing the surface tension adds oxygen.
That seems to be the ticket.

Sorry, to hear about your bad luck. Sucks.
My emergency plan involves flipping the elbow downwards, to evacuate the bucket.
I can hand water by flashlight, and heat with propane.

We don't get the "ice storm" accumulation around here. Wind will knock out power on occasion; never for more than an hour, in the last few years.
 

Greenthumbskunk

PICK YOUR OWN
That seems to be the ticket.

Sorry, to hear about your bad luck. Sucks.
My emergency plan involves flipping the elbow downwards, to evacuate the bucket.
I can hand water by flashlight, and heat with propane.

We don't get the "ice storm" accumulation around here. Wind will knock out power on occasion; never for more than an hour, in the last few years.

About 10 yrs ago was without power for a month due to a terrible ice storm we had. Had crews from several states in here putting up new poles and lines.
 

KMOG

Always rockin’ at half mast
It occurred to me that I need to start adding bloom boosters. I still have enough Emerald Harvest Bloom A & B, so I mixed some and added it to my rez, but will switch to it in a couple weeks

She's stopped stretching at 33" but man the bud sites are everywhere😍

I took 4 clones about a week ago, staggered 2 then a couple days later, 2 more. The first 2 have lots of roots; the other 2 one has some roots.

I was also gifted 10 Hindu Kush seeds. Looks like I can finally get back to Perpetual , that is at least until late May when it gets too damn hot here. My electric bill is $200+ more during summer, and it's just not worth it

New pic of her + clone roots

View attachment 39161View attachment 39162View attachment 39163
If you haven’t popped those Hindu Kush and would be willing to trade them for something I have a lot of beans. Fems or regs.
 

PhatNuggz

Active Member
Video here
Schematic on post 48

RDWC, standpipe drain, venturi injection top fed. No air pump, no Chiller, no timers, tech, Bubkas, nadas.
Plug - play.
View attachment 41085
View attachment 41088

View attachment 41086

'Typical RDWC', undercurrent/ whatev's, ALWAYS have poor designs maximizing surface area. Surface area is where oxygen is exchanged.
View attachment 41084
With three inch drains, the pipe can be manipulated to be half-full. This adds .25 sq.ft. per running foot.
Follow the blue line,,,
This 5 bucket system, 24" on centre, utilising a 2 X 3' tote res. , would have over 10 sq. ft. MORE water surface area than a typical RDWC, utilising a 'barrel' res.

I like it BUT, why are all your mature plant leafs drooping?
 

PhatNuggz

Active Member
The big girl is sucking up ~ 1 gallon of nutes every 3-4 days, just added 3/4 G this morning

Notice the buds farthest from the light have more reddish pistils, most likely bnecause they are getting much less light which is triggering them to finish

Clones are recovering from what I don't know, but they are recovering with vg root growth

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PhatNuggz

Active Member
Plants are doing really well. Temps this week mid 70s day and < 55 at night; 2 nights ago it was low 40s/upper 30s. No doubt vg for bud development. Iguanas were freezing and falling out of the trees

Clones have really nice root development and are stretching, but, need to be moved from the flowering tent to get more hours of daylight

Note the tent is intentionally upside down to provide the vents where they belong; hot air rises. Tents were originally designed for HPS which requires exhaust fan, not needed with LEDs, and I keep the flaps open 24/7, unless someone is coming over that should not see what's what

Picture of COB/monos is just to show the layout, it is not on. I had to replace my AT 260, as apparently one of the mono drivers has died, taking out 2 of the mono rings: all 4 COBS are working, but.. the mono rings also have IR. Swapped it out with my AT P 300 (3 COB/monos in a line), which is a better fit for my 2 x 4 tent, expect the height is on the short side, and I had raised the tent frame up about 4"

Windows 10 photo imager color is not great, and/or Im not techie enough to figure out how to use a different software program. The photos look yellow because I turned the monos off to take the pictures. In the future I will see whether I can keep them on too

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