Biggest Hurdles and Potential Game Changers

[Deleted member 60]

The hurdles are often the game changers...both good and bad. Experience is never easy.

I don't give a lot of advice anymore. Admittedly...I'm set in my ways on many things. I beat my head against the wall for years...pre-internet...on shit like spider mites and general growing techniques....and while it was challenging...it's a huge learning tool to have shit go awry. Then you right it...and you go on anew and try again. These days...I'd steer a new grower to youtube and tell them to find a successfully documented grow....and mirror the fuck out of it...step-by-step.

Constant hurdles for many:

Weighing the take and counting the cash before you even finish a grow. How many times have you heard "How much do you think I'll yield from "X" number of plants....or under "this light"...or whatthefuckever it is. The focus is wrong...so the grow gonna be/go wrong, IMO.

Time spent. This is a "you get what you give" hobby. Noobs, as stated above, typically over-tend their plants. Misting...trimming off all the leaves...just generally not letting things roll and being observant...which...IMO...is key to a good grow. It takes time to learn how to read the plant.

More is better. Whether it be over-fertilizing or just overgrowing yer space...it's often hard to find a balance between reality and fantasy. LOL. Thinking you need 20 bottles/to follow the fert manufacturer's feed schedule works for some folks...but WHEN you have a problem...the more shit you have in the mix...the harder it is to figure out WHY you have a problem. Ditto with living soil/super soil. It's great when it works...but if it doesn't...yer on the train til the track runs out... AND...if you start there...yer not gonna learn much about amendments or get much education on how to read your plants needs. There's no reason to...cus you can't change the parameters at all. Yer just ridin the ride. Dunno about anyone else...but a whole bunch of the fun for me is playing Mad Scientist. Brewing teas...trying new ferts/amendments/etc. Just waterin' em seems boring as fuck unless yer doing a killer guerilla grow in the hinterland.

But we all play differently and take away different things from our grows/intents. Thats' a lot of the fun, IMO. Crazy shit, for sure. It takes all kinds.

 

[1oldfart]

Not too many newbs around here, but one of the biggest hurdles in the beginning is learning to NOT do too much to the plants, killing then with kindness so to speak.

One of our members who’s not been around in a while said “Let the plant be a plant”. That’s good advice.

i've seen many of those plants loved,to death as seedlings, and then they were choped way early never could understand that old boys way with smoke,only good smoke he ever had was from a patch, the law got the year before,the seeds came up the next year, real good smoke ,for something that grew wild, no water or fertz ,no males culled. he wrote that spot off till we got about a 6 pack in .then it was ok,ok ,ok lets go! freaked him out, when we got to the top of the rock pile and could see the dirt /stump pile, where they scalped the dirt,and everything, off the rock off to build a road!

 

[1oldfart]

The hurdles are often the game changers...both good and bad. Experience is never easy.

I don't give a lot of advice anymore. Admittedly...I'm set in my ways on many things. I beat my head against the wall for years...pre-internet...on shit like spider mites and general growing techniques....and while it was challenging...it's a huge learning tool to have shit go awry. Then you right it...and you go on anew and try again. These days...I'd steer a new grower to youtube and tell them to find a successfully documented grow....and mirror the fuck out of it...step-by-step.

Constant hurdles for many:

Weighing the take and counting the cash before you even finish a grow. How many times have you heard "How much do you think I'll yield from "X" number of plants....or under "this light"...or whatthefuckever it is. The focus is wrong...so the grow gonna be/go wrong, IMO.

Time spent. This is a "you get what you give" hobby. Noobs, as stated above, typically over-tend their plants. Misting...trimming off all the leaves...just generally not letting things roll and being observant...which...IMO...is key to a good grow. It takes time to learn how to read the plant.

More is better. Whether it be over-fertilizing or just overgrowing yer space...it's often hard to find a balance between reality and fantasy. LOL. Thinking you need 20 bottles/to follow the fert manufacturer's feed schedule works for some folks...but WHEN you have a problem...the more shit you have in the mix...the harder it is to figure out WHY you have a problem. Ditto with living soil/super soil. It's great when it works...but if it doesn't...yer on the train til the track runs out... AND...if you start there...yer not gonna learn much about amendments or get much education on how to read your plants needs. There's no reason to...cus you can't change the parameters at all. Yer just ridin the ride. Dunno about anyone else...but a whole bunch of the fun for me is playing Mad Scientist. Brewing teas...trying new ferts/amendments/etc. Just waterin' em seems boring as fuck unless yer doing a killer guerilla grow in the hinterland.

But we all play differently and take away different things from our grows/intents. Thats' a lot of the fun, IMO. Crazy shit, for sure. It takes all kinds.

 

[1oldfart]

i try to learn from from most everyone here! i have a lot more faith in the people on this forum than any of the others ,iv'e been thru!

 

[H.A.F.]

I had been chop n dropping everything into the mulch layer

What I have found growing inside is that chopping and dropping green mulch near the plant is not the best thing. So for me in 5g pots it's a no-go. I chop and remove - then let it dry out with any trimmed leaves and such. Dry I can crumble it back onto the soil as a top dress or use it in the worm bin bedding, or top my ammended resting soil with it and some bokashi. I save everything andd it eventually goed back into the soil.

The good thing about the chopped cover crop is that it's safe green mulch to grow and keep in your indoor system. I'll bring stuff from inside to outside, but rarely the other way unless it goes through my gompost tub first, then my worm bin.

Bug ID is definitely a good trick to learn. If you look in a worm bin that's too dry you'll see those white mites that show up to eat dead worms. I think those are what take care of any gnat larvae in the pots. I'll see the occasional gnat but they are usually flying in from elsewhere and those in my tents don't/can't breed.

 

[H.A.F.]

An over abundance of any bug is usually bad, and an indication of something that needs to be addressed. I think it is usually to do with moisture levels for gnats.

 

[H.A.F.]

I just thought of this. One of my ferments that I feed to the plant is from cannabis. I culled a just-flipped male and set it outside overnight to collect dew. I chopped it up and did a brown sugar ferment with some diluted LAB added for the moisture it needed.

The main thing I topdress with is ground up malted barley and fine sifted cannabis leaves from veg to dry-sift leftovers. This is mainly a fancy worm treat but it keeps the soil active.

I think that if there is one plant that uptakes every single mineral needed by the cannabis plant, in the exact quantities and ratios, it's the cannabis plant!

 

[SimpleJak]

Sorry about the delay in my responses here. Getting over a cold. I prescribed myself some good ol' cannabis and it seems to have done the trick!

Yeah pretty much. Yes I mean the general categories.

If you don't mind me asking, what are some of your biggest take-aways from each? Good, Bad, or both.

Thinking of the apartment dwelling version of living soil, the only thing needed really is room for a stack of those rubbermade totes and a worm bin. One of the totes can be the worm bin.

EVERY growing style is gonna have rabbit holes of extra things. Whether it's a PK boost product, flavor enhancers, ripeners like Winterfrost, whatever a stoner can think of and put in a bottle - you can buy. The thing about living soil concepts is that those rabbit holes are mostly DIY, and can be made to fit whatever space you have.

I think there are a few reputable companies selling "living soil" that would be a good starting point so you don't have to buy bails of components and have to cover your living room in a tarp to get it all mixed up. You get that and add worms and you're growing. The thing about this system is that the soil grows as you amend it, and it gets better with age as long as you use it.

Amending means compost (your worm bin) then a few totes to keep fresh peat, pumice, a top-dress mulch (like rice hulls) It can all be done with a stack of totes beside the tent, including the worm bit if you make one out of a tote. I also get a brick of coco every once in a while to add to the worm bedding.

You can also still do it in pots (5g works) if you are not counting on replanting in the same pot after harvest. the soil is de-mineralized at that point and needs to be ammended and rest a bit. So there's another tote for "extra" interim soil as the system grows. There's not a wrong way as long as the soil has a good mix of minerals to start each grow. In a large bed you are counting on continuous top-dressing to keep that going in a sort of "no till" concept. Large beds and apartments don't seem a good option.

Does anyone know how WinterFrost works, like I understand what it does but now how it "signals winter is coming and finish up"? And does it hurt the living part of the soil or affect recycling the soil?

I switched to living soil two years ago and am sold on the process. Then I hit a few snags,.... Springtails? I never heard of those. I 1st thought they were thrips. On a good note the fungas gnats were far and few between for the 1st three runs. But Springtails, they say they are harmless and even beneficial they don't look beneficial when they are all over the place. I never saw any springtails on the plants. B4 the springtails I had some plants act up in my 1st batch of Living Soil. These were all grown from seeds, I couldn't figure out what it was, but looking back it may have been the dreaded HLV. I dumped all that soil and put together a 2x4 bed of Coots mix and had a great run on some genetics from a member here that I knew had not been around the tainted stuff from Cali. Literally zero problems, I thought I had cracked the code. I top dressed every week and added worm castings to the top with cover crop. Then I had a round of clones 1 out of the 8 strains were questionable. I should have trashed it but aero cloned them all together. They all "dudded" out on me. Then I had this happen on the next few grows including some C99s that were HLV tested. They were doing great in veg up til mid flower then just stopped growing and faded with the little nugs that had formed by week 4. They never got any bigger. The strange thing is I had ran Autos in the bed along side of the C99 while it was vegging and the Autos did alright other than a infestation of fugas gnats. I got some decent yielding terpy buds off of the autos. Are Autos immune to HLV? Were the fungas gnats eating the roots on the vegging C99s? I had been chop n dropping everything into the mulch layer and composting all the leaves into the worm bin. Did I F over my whole living soil bed and worm bin?
I wasn't sure if the bed was infected so I dumped the 70 gallons of soil, the worm bin, threw away 4 oz of larfy weed with no tricomes from the "dudded" clones and another 3 or 4 oz of larfy C99. My point being it can be a pretty deep rabbit hole. I dont know for sure what happened and I didn't do any HLV or soil test. Maybe time to look into that a little more. It leaves me with more questions than answers and makes it hard to wait another 8 weeks to see what happens next. I just got some more soil and will try again. If I mess it up this time its on me!

That is an interesting point. Do Autos get HLV? I havent heard of any tbh. Perhaps forced finishing genetics aren't viable for a virus that prefers to be latent and better suited for a plant that can veg/grow longer.

The hurdles are often the game changers...both good and bad. Experience is never easy.

I don't give a lot of advice anymore. Admittedly...I'm set in my ways on many things. I beat my head against the wall for years...pre-internet...on shit like spider mites and general growing techniques....and while it was challenging...it's a huge learning tool to have shit go awry. Then you right it...and you go on anew and try again. These days...I'd steer a new grower to youtube and tell them to find a successfully documented grow....and mirror the fuck out of it...step-by-step.

Constant hurdles for many:

Weighing the take and counting the cash before you even finish a grow. How many times have you heard "How much do you think I'll yield from "X" number of plants....or under "this light"...or whatthefuckever it is. The focus is wrong...so the grow gonna be/go wrong, IMO.

Time spent. This is a "you get what you give" hobby. Noobs, as stated above, typically over-tend their plants. Misting...trimming off all the leaves...just generally not letting things roll and being observant...which...IMO...is key to a good grow. It takes time to learn how to read the plant.

More is better. Whether it be over-fertilizing or just overgrowing yer space...it's often hard to find a balance between reality and fantasy. LOL. Thinking you need 20 bottles/to follow the fert manufacturer's feed schedule works for some folks...but WHEN you have a problem...the more shit you have in the mix...the harder it is to figure out WHY you have a problem. Ditto with living soil/super soil. It's great when it works...but if it doesn't...yer on the train til the track runs out... AND...if you start there...yer not gonna learn much about amendments or get much education on how to read your plants needs. There's no reason to...cus you can't change the parameters at all. Yer just ridin the ride. Dunno about anyone else...but a whole bunch of the fun for me is playing Mad Scientist. Brewing teas...trying new ferts/amendments/etc. Just waterin' em seems boring as fuck unless yer doing a killer guerilla grow in the hinterland.

But we all play differently and take away different things from our grows/intents. Thats' a lot of the fun, IMO. Crazy shit, for sure. It takes all kinds.

Lots of great points made! And it's clear a lot of people on here have had to deal with things without a lot of internet advice that is out there today. That Wisdom/Experience is priceless. It's why I enjoy going through the content here and asking some questions. And the variety of advice is awesome too. Paints a bigger picture and shows possibilities/perspectives that one might not consider.

i try to learn from from most everyone here! i have a lot more faith in the people on this forum than any of the others ,iv'e been thru!

I couldn't agree more!

I just thought of this. One of my ferments that I feed to the plant is from cannabis. I culled a just-flipped male and set it outside overnight to collect dew. I chopped it up and did a brown sugar ferment with some diluted LAB added for the moisture it needed.

The main thing I topdress with is ground up malted barley and fine sifted cannabis leaves from veg to dry-sift leftovers. This is mainly a fancy worm treat but it keeps the soil active.

I think that if there is one plant that uptakes every single mineral needed by the cannabis plant, in the exact quantities and ratios, it's the cannabis plant!

Why do you let it collect dew first? I may have to get into recycling my healthy trimmings/cullings.

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

The hurdles are often the game changers...both good and bad. Experience is never easy.

I don't give a lot of advice anymore. Admittedly...I'm set in my ways on many things. I beat my head against the wall for years...pre-internet...on shit like spider mites and general growing techniques....and while it was challenging...it's a huge learning tool to have shit go awry. Then you right it...and you go on anew and try again. These days...I'd steer a new grower to youtube and tell them to find a successfully documented grow....and mirror the fuck out of it...step-by-step.

Constant hurdles for many:

Weighing the take and counting the cash before you even finish a grow. How many times have you heard "How much do you think I'll yield from "X" number of plants....or under "this light"...or whatthefuckever it is. The focus is wrong...so the grow gonna be/go wrong, IMO.

Time spent. This is a "you get what you give" hobby. Noobs, as stated above, typically over-tend their plants. Misting...trimming off all the leaves...just generally not letting things roll and being observant...which...IMO...is key to a good grow. It takes time to learn how to read the plant.

More is better. Whether it be over-fertilizing or just overgrowing yer space...it's often hard to find a balance between reality and fantasy. LOL. Thinking you need 20 bottles/to follow the fert manufacturer's feed schedule works for some folks...but WHEN you have a problem...the more shit you have in the mix...the harder it is to figure out WHY you have a problem. Ditto with living soil/super soil. It's great when it works...but if it doesn't...yer on the train til the track runs out... AND...if you start there...yer not gonna learn much about amendments or get much education on how to read your plants needs. There's no reason to...cus you can't change the parameters at all. Yer just ridin the ride. Dunno about anyone else...but a whole bunch of the fun for me is playing Mad Scientist. Brewing teas...trying new ferts/amendments/etc. Just waterin' em seems boring as fuck unless yer doing a killer guerilla grow in the hinterland.

But we all play differently and take away different things from our grows/intents. Thats' a lot of the fun, IMO. Crazy shit, for sure. It takes all kinds.

I couldn't have said it better and I'm pretty stoned, not "medicated". lol
Seems no one wants to listen to the "older folks" anymore.
We've been there and done that. Today, it's just all things are broken down so more $$$ can be made by a certain few, by having you buy a whole assortment of additives or has to be a certain micromole output on a light etc.
And the new and improved "grow science" channels? lol
It's out of control.
The old school "smell of fun" has left the building.

 

[SimpleJak]

I couldn't have said it better and I'm pretty stoned, not "medicated". lol
Seems no one wants to listen to the "older folks" anymore.
We've been there and done that. Today, it's just all things are broken down so more $$$ can be made by a certain few, by having you buy a whole assortment of additives or has to be a certain micromole output on a light etc.
And the new and improved "grow science" channels? lol
It's out of control.
The old school "smell of fun" has left the building.

I worry about this too. Things either maybe become so broken down like you're saying or so cookie cutter that no one truly understands whats going on or why or how, they just "do". Like Calculators they can be extremely helpful, but give them to kids in school and they lose some of the foundations and practice of those foundations.

 

[H.A.F.]

Does anyone know how WinterFrost works, like I understand what it does but now how it "signals winter is coming and finish up"? And does it hurt the living part of the soil or affect recycling the soil?

Winter Frost - New Millenium Nutrients

If you can find how they make it and what from be my guest LOL. I gave it a peek and all I see is

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS​

Total Nitrogen (N)……………………….0.2%​

0.2% Nitrate Nitrogen​

Available Phosphate (P2O5)……………2.2%​

Soluble Potash (K2O)……………………2.3%​

​

Derived from:​

Potassium Nitrate, Monopotassium Phosphate​

It's in a bottle and I don't know how they made it so I'll pass. The dude from New Millenium is on podcasts a lot and I'm sure there's one where he explains it.

Why do you let it collect dew first? I may have to get into recycling my healthy trimmings/cullings.

Trimmings and cullings are plant food waiting to happen. I only set it out to collect dew because that's what they say to do for fermenting wild things I don't know if a night outside matters compared to a plant that lived out there, but it didn't hurt.

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

I have over 3000 eggs in the soil now.
I got that Cal hurdle covered. lol

 

[SimpleJak]

Winter Frost - New Millenium Nutrients

If you can find how they make it and what from be my guest LOL. I gave it a peek and all I see is

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS​

Total Nitrogen (N)……………………….0.2%​

0.2% Nitrate Nitrogen​

Available Phosphate (P2O5)……………2.2%​

Soluble Potash (K2O)……………………2.3%​

​

Derived from:​

Potassium Nitrate, Monopotassium Phosphate​

It's in a bottle and I don't know how they made it so I'll pass. The dude from New Millenium is on podcasts a lot and I'm sure there's one where he explains it.


Trimmings and cullings are plant food waiting to happen. I only set it out to collect dew because that's what they say to do for fermenting wild things I don't know if a night outside matters compared to a plant that lived out there, but it didn't hurt.

Yeah I want to know what its NOT on that ingredient list.

I have over 3000 eggs in the soil now.
I got that Cal hurdle covered. lol
View attachment 132847

Damn you arent kidding! haha

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Yeah I want to know what its NOT on that ingredient list.

The remaining 95.3% is distilled water. That’s one of the issues with bottled nutrients…you are paying a lot of money for a bottle that is mostly distilled water.

 

[H.A.F.]

The remaining 95.3% is distilled water. That’s one of the issues with bottled nutrients…you are paying a lot of money for a bottle that is mostly distilled water.

There is also how those minerals were put into solution. If he fermented wild comfrey and nettlesand such and reduced it to a plant available bloom booster that's different from mining stuff and leeching it with chemicals and cleaning it up.

 

[Deleted member 60]

That company may have rebranded a bit (might have been just "Millennium"?)...but I think it's the same outfit I had bottles of in my shop 20 years ago. (gulp) "Spring", Summer", "Autumn"" "Winter" (? LOL haven't mastered growing in the snow yet) I remember the "Autumn" label saying 'creates austere conditions that mimmick the end of season".

They're ferts. It's all the same shit. This company is just tweeking small amounts of elements in each blend to make a different formula. It's the AN approach. Break it down to individual elements and then sell it in separate bottles so you can mix em back together and they can make shittons of cash. There sure isn't anything to be scared of....other than the cost.

Because...they do work...these things called ferts. You won't see anybody running commercially/for profit growing in living soil. Nope...they are pushing their plants...and that's OK...it's just one of many ways to grow. In the end...the plant doesn't know if it's a chem fert or a shaman-like, spell cast upon ala natural grow in "living soil".

Only the yields tell the tale. Again...different intents make different outcomes...but it's all the same in the end. The guy who buys that nug/friend/family who smokes that nug can't tell how it was grown...nor do most care. The only surety is that you'll kill their buzz talking about bro-science and shit.

Just smoke it!

And yeah...the fun (risk) has been replaced by an ease we've never seen before...and the experts have come out in force since it's safe to play.

Like we used to say...SHUT UP AND GROW". And fuck me...yeah...if yer gonna talk...only address the shit you've actually done...successfully or not... and never think cus you did it right or fucked it up the next guy can't do the same thing differently.

Regurging bullshit from clowns just makes more clowns....... (cues circus music)

 

[1oldfart]

I have over 3000 eggs in the soil now.
I got that Cal hurdle covered. lol
View attachment 132847

@NoWaistedSpace , are you useing the whole egg like some people do with a tomato?

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

@NoWaistedSpace , are you useing the whole egg like some people do with a tomato?

No, just 15 years of tossing eggs shells in my 3ft deep garden.
Been loading food wastes and stuff all these years. When I added bio char, things changed. The garden takes care of itself.

 

[1oldfart]

No, just 15 years of tossing eggs shells in my 3ft deep garden.

the couple i get eggs from save the shell for my garden ,i have a couple 55 gal drums of mussel shells that i need to crush and add them to the garden,i used the backhoe to subsoil my garden last fall.added 47 bags of shredded sales recepts ,at the botton of each run(9 rows) now i need to build a little hammer mill to crush all those shells -

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

the couple i get eggs from save the shell for my garden ,i have a couple 55 gal drums of mussel shells that i need to crush and add them to the garden,i used the backhoe to subsoil my garden last fall.added 47 bags of shredded sales recepts ,at the botton of each run(9 rows) now i need to build a little hammer mill to crush all those shells -

You can barely see the eggs shells now. They have disappeared.
I put that many egg shells about every 10 days?
I live on eggs.