Weed is legal now and the "magic" seems to be gone?

[treefarmercharlie]

Lots of LST, Mainlining (pics of a mainline above) or I bend the main stalk horizontally to keep everyting flat. I top and train the colas to equal height... I mean every cola is at the exact same height. You dont want one cola getting to close to the light or it gets a big head and takes over... (becomine dominant and taking up resources.) At least thats how I understand it..

I never understood people with high power lights and a big xmas tree plant with one single cola at the top, seems like a huge waste to me...

I’m not running high power lights, I’m running 480W of LED in a 4x4. I train mine into manifolds so I get multiple tops (usually a minimum of 16), so my plants are much bigger. Buds don’t need direct light, the leaves do the vast majority of the photosynthesis, and the main reason of thinning out the leaves is to open up the whole plant to the airflow. That picture I posted is of Frozen Custard from Greenpoint Seeds.

 

[H.A.F.]

1.5oz - 2oz per plant is pretty low.

However; with more, smaller plants that adds up quick. You have to do the math for your set-up and figure out if the longer veg is actually worth it. Flipping at 4 weeks, dropping every 4 weeks if you keep it going you're always getting 1.5-2oz of something new, even if it's just a different pheno of the same plant. You can always run a batch of clones if you want more of anything, but yield is not the biggest factor in keeping good smoke on hand.

How long will it have to last you until the next harvest is cured?

 

[bobross]

I’m not running high power lights, I’m running 480W of LED in a 4x4. I train mine into manifolds so I get multiple tops (usually a minimum of 16), so my plants are much bigger. Buds don’t need direct light, the leaves do the vast majority of the photosynthesis, and the main reason of thinning out the leaves is to open up the whole plant to the airflow. That picture I posted is of Frozen Custard from Greenpoint Seeds.

Good stuff man, I wasnt talking about you concerning the xmas tree grows though... Sorry if you took it that way. I do see many with huge spindly trees which doesnt make sense to me.

Anyway, I cure for at least 2 months before sampling and most of my buds go way beyond their expiration date before I finish them. I have a Durban Poison harvest thats been curing around a year and another Northern Lights that is about 3 months in (really nice at this point).... My current grow will be another 3 months to grow and at least two months to cure. I should finish my current supply by then but I'm not sure. A little bit goes a long ways for me.

 

[H.A.F.]

I do see many with huge spindly trees which doesnt make sense to me.

I got into the habit because of running testers. I can train any plants to look the same but letting them go 'au natural' can show a breeder stuff he wants to see that is not evident when you prune and train.

I offset it by flipping at 4 weeks (ish) but I still get the occasional beast. I decide at about week three on structure. If there are 4 good limbs to make a nice 4-top, good stretch on them I'll top it and grow those 4 limbs for another week before flip.

the thing to get past is people that are not worried about yield.

 

[H.A.F.]

Didn't mean for that to sound snippy LOL. That's just why some people can grow spindly trees. Wouldn't make sense in your case.

But you could fit three 3g pots in there, each topped to keep 4 tops (no training), and you can do that in 4 weeks. Time spent mainlining and then waiting for it to recover, then doing it again, it makes for a long veg when she could already be making flowers. If you knock that 4-month grow down to 3-months you have an extra grow each year.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

I got into the habit because of running testers. I can train any plants to look the same but letting them go 'au natural' can show a breeder stuff he wants to see that is not evident when you prune and train.

I offset it by flipping at 4 weeks (ish) but I still get the occasional beast. I decide at about week three on structure. If there are 4 good limbs to make a nice 4-top, good stretch on them I'll top it and grow those 4 limbs for another week before flip.

the thing to get past is people that are not worried about yield.

There are definitely benefits to growing smaller plants. I read their earlier post wrong and thought they weren’t happy about getting smaller amounts off their plants. I personally like the slower pace of vegging them longer but I don’t need the extra bud I get off of each plant. Shit, I still have some bud in jars that I harvested 3 years ago. I need to do something with that this summer. Will probably use it for butter or edibles.

 

[bobross]

Didn't mean for that to sound snippy LOL. That's just why some people can grow spindly trees. Wouldn't make sense in your case.

But you could fit three 3g pots in there, each topped to keep 4 tops (no training), and you can do that in 4 weeks. Time spent mainlining and then waiting for it to recover, then doing it again, it makes for a long veg when she could already be making flowers. If you knock that 4-month grow down to 3-months you have an extra grow each year.

No worries ! I'm really liking this forum so far, seems to be some really good people on board here. You sound like you really know your stuff and I understand what your saying about seeing the true genetics by letting a plant grow naturally, I never thought of that, cool stuff. Maybe I'm just slightly envious because I'm forced to keep things small and dont have the option to grow xmas trees. (No stretchy sativas for me, I need to grow low bushy plants !)

So let me restate the xmas key comment (not directed at you !).... I've been watching a lot of growers and there are newbies with big lights and big tents that just toss a seed into some soil and let the plant take off without training or topping. They wind up with one massive cola and a lot of smaller tops lower on the plant. You've got me thinking about my strategy to remove lower buds ( It hurts for me to chop all those nugs, --I'm listening !) but for now my main strategy is to train my plant to keep the colas all equal in height. I've found that if a bud starts to climb higher than the others, it thinks its "King of the mountain" and starts taxing all the lesser (lower colas).. Keeping them all even and equally distant from the light seems to make ALL of the colas explode and fatten up... I'm the Robin Hood grower that steals from the rich giving back to the poor (pulling the high colas down and raising the lower ones". I never believed in preferential treatment, I want my chessboard to be full of kings only, no pawns allowed, everyone equal.

 

[H.A.F.]

You've got me thinking about my strategy to remove lower buds

One thing I have done is a lot of side-by-side comparisons. Pretty unscientific since it was seed plants but one that has always proved pretty true is that the harvest depends on pot size with everything else equal. So 2 plants in 3g post grown the exact same way will produce "X" amount of weed - regardless of pruning or training.

What will happen if you do it early enough (or continuously) is it will focus the bud weight on what you leave on the plant. So you could have a shrub with lots of larf and some nice tops that weighs a 2oz, or one that was pruned up nice and has nothing but dense nuggets top to bottom that weighs 2oz. In home grow terms, one plant fit in a half gallon jar and one in a quart.

FWIW I decide around week three or four of flower what to keep. Low stuff always goes for airflow if nothing else. Limbs that don't reach the canopy (clones), lower fan leaves etc. But looking at the flower sites in week three there should be lots of pistils showing - or not. If I have Guy Fieri hair puffballs everywhere up top, I start removing the wispy stuff down below. Some of the smaller limbs just under the top may have everything removed but the top bud. It'll still stack for another week or two.

 

[H.A.F.]

Also, you can remove the little sprouts at the nodes but keep the fan leaf in tact so you really lose nothing.

 

[bobross]

One thing I have done is a lot of side-by-side comparisons. Pretty unscientific since it was seed plants but one that has always proved pretty true is that the harvest depends on pot size with everything else equal. So 2 plants in 3g post grown the exact same way will produce "X" amount of weed - regardless of pruning or training.

What will happen if you do it early enough (or continuously) is it will focus the bud weight on what you leave on the plant. So you could have a shrub with lots of larf and some nice tops that weighs a 2oz, or one that was pruned up nice and has nothing but dense nuggets top to bottom that weighs 2oz. In home grow terms, one plant fit in a half gallon jar and one in a quart.

FWIW I decide around week three or four of flower what to keep. Low stuff always goes for airflow if nothing else. Limbs that don't reach the canopy (clones), lower fan leaves etc. But looking at the flower sites in week three there should be lots of pistils showing - or not. If I have Guy Fieri hair puffballs everywhere up top, I start removing the wispy stuff down below. Some of the smaller limbs just under the top may have everything removed but the top bud. It'll still stack for another week or two.

Oddly, I had my biggest harvest in a 5 gallon cloth pot (filled with around 3.5 gallons of soil). My last grow I moved up to 7 gallons of soil and something went wrong, the roots only used a very small portion of the soil (the root ball was using around 1 gallon of soil) I had 8 nice colas that should have exploed but something went wrong with the roots and I wound up with a medium harvest. My colas should have been football size....

So this grow I'm using less soil (actually pure coco-coir) and a 3 -5 gallon pot. My bet is that the weight of the soil in a bigger pot can become compacted---strangling the roots. (mainly sue to my grower errors)

On to the subject of lower buds, yes, I trim the liitle chutes to stop them from forming, maybe too aggressively. My problem is that under a loupe, the lower buds are clear while the upper buds are cloudy starting to amber. This is the main reason I only keep the top colas. Many have said to chop the tops off when cloudy and amber, and let the lower buds finish (also allowing me to lower the light) for another week or so to "catch up. Unfortunately for me, I need to complete the harvest in one go....Its too stinky otherwise.

After the stretch (around week 3-4 flower) I give a heavy chop and defoliate taking all the lower chutes and a good percentage of lower foliage. I go heavy here because I like to stop high stress training and let her do her flower thing at this point. Normally the plant is going insane around this time and the foliage comes back fast. I leave that foliage for the flowers to take nutrients from later in life...

 

[treefarmercharlie]

My bet is that the weight of the soil in a bigger pot can become compacted---strangling the roots. (mainly sue to my grower errors)

This can happen if you don't have enough perlite mixed in, or if you are watering too quickly and/or heavily in soil. I've been using a Blumat system to water my pots for years now and haven't had any issues with the roots filling out my 10 gallon pots. Here's a pic of how my 10gal pots usually look at harvest.

 

[H.A.F.]

Oddly, I had my biggest harvest in a 5 gallon cloth pot (filled with around 3.5 gallons of soil). My last grow I moved up to 7 gallons of soil and something went wrong, the roots only used a very small portion of the soil (the root ball was using around 1 gallon of soil) I had 8 nice colas that should have exploed but something went wrong with the roots and I wound up with a medium harvest. My colas should have been football size....

So this grow I'm using less soil (actually pure coco-coir) and a 3 -5 gallon pot. My bet is that the weight of the soil in a bigger pot can become compacted---strangling the roots. (mainly sue to my grower errors)

On to the subject of lower buds, yes, I trim the liitle chutes to stop them from forming, maybe too aggressively. My problem is that under a loupe, the lower buds are clear while the upper buds are cloudy starting to amber. This is the main reason I only keep the top colas. Many have said to chop the tops off when cloudy and amber, and let the lower buds finish (also allowing me to lower the light) for another week or so to "catch up. Unfortunately for me, I need to complete the harvest in one go....Its too stinky otherwise.

After the stretch (around week 3-4 flower) I give a heavy chop and defoliate taking all the lower chutes and a good percentage of lower foliage. I go heavy here because I like to stop high stress training and let her do her flower thing at this point. Normally the plant is going insane around this time and the foliage comes back fast. I leave that foliage for the flowers to take nutrients from later in life...

So much in here I have a few nuggets.

The 1g rootball. If you allow the plant to get rootbound in the 1g pot before transplant, you need to bust up the edges to promote new growth. Roots will get sent out into the rest of the soil but not efficiently. After harvest you can still give it a good yank and come out with the 1g pot right?

You don't have an optimum grow environment - so expecting optimum is silly, you do what you can. But if the tops are amber and the lowers are not what are you looking at? Those sugar leaves up top that are easy to see are also the last thing you want to base harvest on. I look at the middles, because they will be average. Also, cloudy/milky is ripe trichomes. Amber is dead degrading trichomes. Since they don't ripen at the same time that is why that 5-10% amber (or whatever) works for a huge harvest. If 5% are dead that means most are at the ripe stage. You don't want amber other than an indicator.

Last one, on the defoliation. I am not a fan of "day 21, lollipop it" pruning. I know what I want to keep and what I want to prune as I go. Lower limbs I don't want come off in veg (but I don't veg long). I take fan leaves as they get in the way of a top, or get huge and hide the canopy. I try not to take more than a few limbs or a handfull of leaves at a time. You can tell right after flip when it starts stretching the first things that will need to go. Why wait and let the plant expend all that energy for 21 days on something you know you are not keeping? Unless you are taking clones and need the limbs to stretch lop 'em off early!

 

[bobross]

This can happen if you don't have enough perlite mixed in, or if you are watering too quickly and/or heavily in soil. I've been using a Blumat system to water my pots for years now and haven't had any issues with the roots filling out my 10 gallon pots. Here's a pic of how my 10gal pots usually look at harvest.
View attachment 126803

This is a HUGE help to me, I was getting ready to ask for folks picture of roots at harvest ! This looks exactly how my harvests (in smaller pots) has looked. I've been concerned because my roots look light brown just like this---not bright white like I have seen from others growers. The roots look fine, no smell, no mush, just a light brown exactly like this picture. Nute stain?

So, I moved up to a 7 gallon air pot and when I harvested I had the smallest root ball...It was quite a shock to see that the plant didnt take advantage of all that soil.. I transplanted way before the plant got root bound too, maybe too soon. I'm blaming the air pot for drying out too quickly on the sides and compacting the middle soil way too tight. I'm thinking the water was becoming trapped in the middle and drying out too fast on the sides...The roots stayed in the water and had no reason to grow out to the side...as the sides were dry... Anyway, all just theory...

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Yes, the brownish roots can be staining from nutrients. I dose with recharge, once a week, and that is really dark brown from the molasses in it.

 

[bobross]

So much in here I have a few nuggets.

The 1g rootball. If you allow the plant to get rootbound in the 1g pot before transplant, you need to bust up the edges to promote new growth. Roots will get sent out into the rest of the soil but not efficiently. After harvest you can still give it a good yank and come out with the 1g pot right?

Yep, 7 gallons of soil and I yanked up a gallon root ball... I explained a bit more above, I'm blaming the huge airpot and user error with watering.....

You don't have an optimum grow environment - so expecting optimum is silly, you do what you can. But if the tops are amber and the lowers are not what are you looking at? Those sugar leaves up top that are easy to see are also the last thing you want to base harvest on. I look at the middles, because they will be average. Also, cloudy/milky is ripe trichomes. Amber is dead degrading trichomes. Since they don't ripen at the same time that is why that 5-10% amber (or whatever) works for a huge harvest. If 5% are dead that means most are at the ripe stage. You don't want amber other than an indicator.

Right, I'm stuck in a small place but its a good place to learn from for now. As far as Tricome color goes, I'm with you. Most of my harvests are when cloudy just starting to amber.. You can see the amber clearly on the sugar leaves (I ignore that info) and watch for cloudy trics on the buds (both old and new growth)... Sugar leaves dont count, but when the amber they start giving me clues.....

Last one, on the defoliation. I am not a fan of "day 21, lollipop it" pruning. I know what I want to keep and what I want to prune as I go. Lower limbs I don't want come off in veg (but I don't veg long). I take fan leaves as they get in the way of a top, or get huge and hide the canopy. I try not to take more than a few limbs or a handfull of leaves at a time. You can tell right after flip when it starts stretching the first things that will need to go. Why wait and let the plant expend all that energy for 21 days on something you know you are not keeping? Unless you are taking clones and need the limbs to stretch lop 'em off early!

I'm pretty flexible with my timings with pruning etc.. But I kinda thought week 3-4 was a good time to get in one last hack before the plant really starts working on flowers.... Weeks 1-3 (the stretch) seems to be a massive growth thing and I dont like messing with her then, I figured right after the stretch was good? No?


Thanks much all, I know I type too much and am amazed that any of you even read it... The other forums are NOT like this.....Been there done that...

Note: I kinda screwed up my response here, look up and you'll see I was answering your post....

 

[bobross]

Yes, the brownish roots can be staining from nutrients. I dose with recharge, once a week, and that is really dark brown from the molasses in it.

Thanks man, huge help and you aswered a question of mine way before I could even ask. Its just that I've seen growers take the roots out and the plants have big thick white roots. At harvest, my roots are everywhere, thin and brown... Yes, I use mollasses towards the end of flower.

Hate buying more stuff but I'm hearing a lot of good things about Recharge as you mention. Trying to use the KISS method, but maybe the recharge wouldnt hurt..

 

[H.A.F.]

I figured right after the stretch was good? No?

There's no wrong way unless you kill the plant. I don't like stripping tons of stuff off and giving it the stress all at one time of. Mine and yours may look the same at the day 22 mark but I'll have gotten there gradually.

I just prefer the plant not waste effort on a piece I am not keeping anyway. Let it focus the growth on the things that are important. And if you catch the little sprouts you don't want early you can just pinch them off and leave the leaves in place. The lower leaves may not get as much light but they are not gonna shade anything so why not keep them?