Natural Immunity

[printer]

First half of video, 'no added benefit to getting the shot if you have already had covid', as far as ending up in the hospital (for Delta). Second half, 'Natural immunity is superior to vaccine alone', was for variants before Omicron, previous infection makes no difference in catching Omi. Prior covid and vaccine protects from Omi,

Current situation with covid in my neck of the woods.


2022/week_2

Basically 20% of the population did not get the shot. This 20% is responsible for 40% of hospital admissions for covid. They also make up 40% of the ICU admissions, but they make up almost 80% of the deaths.

On the video, might as well pull up a week when no Omi was around. With Delta, a quarter of the people were unvaccinated and caused 65% of hospital admissions, 78% of ICU admissions.



So it would seem that even then being vaccinated gave you a better chance of staying out of hospital than being unvaxinated. Government as a source of data, no US data saying a Flu condition was labelled a covid for the hospital to get more money. The current data (top picture) shows not getting vaccinated is worse than being vaccinated, even though they say two shots without a booster is not enough for Omi and we only have about 20% with the booster yet. With all the vaccinated having the booster would see more red than green.

The Dr in the second video, I catch his broadcasts. He has a good handle on it and he even says that you are better off with the shot than without. I was in agreement with those that had a previous infection not having to get the shot before Omi, with it getting you infected whether you had a previous case or not I feel a person should get the shot. Omi is milder than Delta but people are still getting seriously sick and dying from it.

I know people say it is my body and my choice but what you do will impact on others. We do have more of a collective culture than in the US and people are more willing to do what is good for society as with the past generations that went to war rather than saying it has nothing to do with them. I feel living in society does have some responsibilities, I try to do my part.

 

[ttystikk]

Nor am I. I think thats the biggest issue we have right now. We cant seem to talk to one another anymore. I understand the age group on this forum. Its crazy to me sometimes that the generation of drugs sex and rock and roll, is where it is politically. I personally blame capitalism mentality for where we are at. Media's drive to make money. News has to turn a profit. Information is used to get clicks. Its no longer about being accurate. Its now about being profitable.
Once a news organization says they are not news but entertainment (FOX), anything they put out is exactly that. Entertainment. I was taught by my parents to not believe in the things I see on TV. Grandpappy said TV rots peoples heads. Internet is just interactive TV.

Id rather talk about a solution that helps the largest amount of people. (i know, how fucking left of me) We got cloth face coverings and vaccines. If those are so bad and infringing on your personal liberties, what solution do you have? (Not you personally Kev, just in general)

And here is the real question imo. If Covid killed 6% of children under the age of 12, would we even be having this discussion? If we had hospitals full of sick and dying children?
I urge you all to watch the movie Dont Look Up. I think it does a great job showing how the media is. Especially when its not something that will make money. (keep in mind the media is shitting all over this movie...i wonder why...)

I just started this thread but I felt like I had to respond to this post right away before I read the rest of it.

When news organisations stop being credible sources of reliably accurate information about ANYTHING, they lose the ability to be an authority on everything.

I think this is at the crux of America's problems in terms of people being able to communicate across ideological lines, conspiracy theories ("choosing" what "truth" to believe), government disinformation campaigns using the media, political parties making lies the centerpieces of their election and governing strategy, and more.

American children are warehoused in public schools so their parents can work; giving them an education is secondary. Sadly, this continues into college. A dumbed down population that has never been taught to think critically is the perfect fertile ground for political manipulation. An educated population is an essential foundation of democracy; those who know this also understand the inverse; that an UNeducated population is easy to manipulate into giving up its freedoms, power, money and future.

My family has, on both sides, a proud and many generations long history of educators. That stopped when it became clear that managing a McDonald's pays more than teaching, reflecting its current value in our society. No good can come of this and in fact it hasn't.

 

[ttystikk]

Also 270 US doctors, scientists, healthcare professionals and professors have written an open letter to Spotify telling them to shut Rogans misinformation shit down. It wont. Spotify just bought that shit for 200 million. They got to get that money back. So Joe will stay, the libtards will scream, the repubtards will rejoice, the rich will get richer, the poor will help them, and everything will stay just as its meant to be.

Wait a minute. Dr Malone did groundbreaking work on mRNA vaccines and is highly credentialed. He deserves to be heard just as much if not more than Dr Fauci, a self admitted liar.

So much of what used to get you cancelled from social media has in fact become generally accepted in the last year or two. Joe Rogan is giving everyone a platform and someone with the relevant background of a Dr Malone must not be silenced if we want to call ourselves a free society. Is he right? Not my call; history will be the judge. But whether he's right or wrong, he has the right to put his opinion out there and we have the right to hear it.

 

[m4s73r]

I just started this thread but I felt like I had to respond to this post right away before I read the rest of it.

When news organisations stop being credible sources of reliably accurate information about ANYTHING, they lose the ability to be an authority on everything.

I think this is at the crux of America's problems in terms of people being able to communicate across ideological lines, conspiracy theories ("choosing" what "truth" to believe), government disinformation campaigns using the media, political parties making lies the centerpieces of their election and governing strategy, and more.

American children are warehoused in public schools so their parents can work; giving them an education is secondary. Sadly, this continues into college. A dumbed down population that has never been taught to think critically is the perfect fertile ground for political manipulation. An educated population is an essential foundation of democracy; those who know this also understand the inverse; that an UNeducated population is easy to manipulate into giving up its freedoms, power, money and future.

My family has, on both sides, a proud and many generations long history of educators. That stopped when it became clear that managing a McDonald's pays more than teaching, reflecting its current value in our society. No good can come of this and in fact it hasn't.

This is what happens with capitalism. General education (k-12) doesnt turn a profit in the public space. Thats why we've seen such a huge jump in private schools, skyrocketing college tuition and a consistent slashing of education funding. School needs to turn a profit or its of no value. The only thing that has value in this country is Profit.

Wait a minute. Dr Malone did groundbreaking work on mRNA vaccines and is highly credentialed. He deserves to be heard just as much if not more than Dr Fauci, a self admitted liar.

So much of what used to get you cancelled from social media has in fact become generally accepted in the last year or two. Joe Rogan is giving everyone a platform and someone with the relevant background of a Dr Malone must not be silenced if we want to call ourselves a free society. Is he right? Not my call; history will be the judge. But whether he's right or wrong, he has the right to put his opinion out there and we have the right to hear it.

No. Dr Malone helped with one step back in the late 1980s. It did prove to be an important step in the road to the COVID-19 vaccines. But that was over 30 years ago. Hes an outcast in the scientific community. Personally, I think he's over exaggerated his contribution. Dr. Felgner invented the first lipid nanoparticle. Malone mixed the fatty bubbles with messenger RNA, and together, they showed the mixture could spur human cells in a dish to make proteins. Thats it. He did nothing else. This is like telling the soux chef who cooked the bone broth that they made the stew. He didnt. He made bone broth. Malone didnt invent mRNA, he was a mixer.

Joe Rogan is just trying to make money. He dont give a shit about giving people a platform. He's as bad as Alex Jones and motivated the same way. Profit, regardless of who it hurts. And Dr Malone is seeing the ability to make a shit ton of money on publicity cause he worked on some research in a lab over 30 years ago.

My grandpappy used to talk to me about the company you keep. How you can and will be judged for the people around you and who you associate with. Both of these guys are lifted up by the anti vax nut jobs. The people who believe the polio vaccine causes people to become autistic. And they deserve a platform? Does the Klu Klux Klan deserve a platform just cause they think all people without white skin are inferior humans? Stupidity does not deserve a platform.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Joe Rogan is just trying to make money. He dont give a shit about giving people a platform. He's as bad as Alex Jones and motivated the same way. Profit, regardless of who it hurts. And Dr Malone is seeing the ability to make a shit ton of money on publicity cause he worked on some research in a lab over 30 years ago.

I'm not sure where you get this idea from. Joe has given both people from the left and the right a platform and is one of the only shows on the planet that gives people 3-4 hours to carefully explain their side. How is that not giving people a platform? He's even had episodes where he's let two opposing views hash it out for 3-4 hours.

He put all of his own money into that podcast for a long time, and refused a lot of offers to let anyone host it, because they wouldn't agree they put him in full control of the content. Spotify was the only company who was willing to agree to that so he would've been crazy to turn that contract down.

I have a feeling you haven't listened to much more than clips from his podcast if you feel that way about him. He's one of the few people out there who have a show that will apologize and correct himself when he realizes he was wrong about something. Most of the backlash he's gotten from the media started when he publicly stated that he doesn't think men who transition to women should be able to participate in women's sports. As soon as the media got a hold of that they started portraying him as this huge conservative which is totally wrong.

 

[ttystikk]

This is what happens with capitalism. General education (k-12) doesnt turn a profit in the public space. Thats why we've seen such a huge jump in private schools, skyrocketing college tuition and a consistent slashing of education funding. School needs to turn a profit or its of no value. The only thing that has value in this country is Profit.


No. Dr Malone helped with one step back in the late 1980s. It did prove to be an important step in the road to the COVID-19 vaccines. But that was over 30 years ago. Hes an outcast in the scientific community. Personally, I think he's over exaggerated his contribution. Dr. Felgner invented the first lipid nanoparticle. Malone mixed the fatty bubbles with messenger RNA, and together, they showed the mixture could spur human cells in a dish to make proteins. Thats it. He did nothing else. This is like telling the soux chef who cooked the bone broth that they made the stew. He didnt. He made bone broth. Malone didnt invent mRNA, he was a mixer.

Joe Rogan is just trying to make money. He dont give a shit about giving people a platform. He's as bad as Alex Jones and motivated the same way. Profit, regardless of who it hurts. And Dr Malone is seeing the ability to make a shit ton of money on publicity cause he worked on some research in a lab over 30 years ago.

My grandpappy used to talk to me about the company you keep. How you can and will be judged for the people around you and who you associate with. Both of these guys are lifted up by the anti vax nut jobs. The people who believe the polio vaccine causes people to become autistic. And they deserve a platform? Does the Klu Klux Klan deserve a platform just cause they think all people without white skin are inferior humans? Stupidity does not deserve a platform.

If we silence those who we don't agree with, we don't have a free society.

Even the Klan example qualifies; giving those clowns a platform means that people know exactly who they are and what they're up to- and gives us the opportunity to defend ourselves from their bullshit.

It's no coincidence that the right wing in America is on a crusade to eliminate CRT (defined as whatever they want to call it that day), because they're trying to control the narrative.

You can't pick and choose who to platform; what you CAN do is give people the tools to think critically and intelligently about what they see and hear. Antivaxxers, Luddites, religious extremists, nationalists, Fascists and racial superiority nuts are not new. The reason why they're more prominent today is because people are more poorly educated and far more often lied to.

 

[m4s73r]

I'm not sure where you get this idea from. Joe has given both people from the left and the right a platform and is one of the only shows on the planet that gives people 3-4 hours to carefully explain their side. How is that not giving people a platform? He's even had episodes where he's let two opposing views hash it out for 3-4 hours.

He put all of his own money into that podcast for a long time, and refused a lot of offers to let anyone host it, because they wouldn't agree they put him in full control of the content. Spotify was the only company who was willing to agree to that so he would've been crazy to turn that contract down.

I have a feeling you haven't listened to much more than clips from his podcast if you feel that way about him. He's one of the few people out there who have a show that will apologize and correct himself when he realizes he was wrong about something. Most of the backlash he's gotten from the media started when he publicly stated that he doesn't think men who transition to women should be able to participate in women's sports. As soon as the media got a hold of that they started portraying him as this huge conservative which is totally wrong.

You would be right. I dont listen to much more than clips of his stuff. I did watch one episode of him and Jamie Kilstien talking about SJWs. I will also freely admit that I prefer to follow the scientific community as a whole rather then just some outlier.

If we silence those who we don't agree with, we don't have a free society.

Even the Klan example qualifies; giving those clowns a platform means that people know exactly who they are and what they're up to- and gives us the opportunity to defend ourselves from their bullshit.

It's no coincidence that the right wing in America is on a crusade to eliminate CRT (defined as whatever they want to call it that day), because they're trying to control the narrative.

You can't pick and choose who to platform; what you CAN do is give people the tools to think critically and intelligently about what they see and hear. Antivaxxers, Luddites, religious extremists, nationalists, Fascists and racial superiority nuts are not new. The reason why they're more prominent today is because people are more poorly educated and far more often lied to.

Im going to have to agree to disagree with this. The Nazi party had a platform and they killed millions. Giving these clowns a platform allows them to brainwash the unsuspecting. So no, they dont get a platform. You dont get a platform to spew hate and falsehoods. And thinking that we can give people the "tools to think critically" will only lead to more suffering. We can justify horrible, outlandish things, if it justifies our rational. Thats how genocide happens. Think, Native Americans. We brought them in to our communities, taught them our language, religion, ect and yet we still slaughtered them.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

You would be right. I dont listen to much more than clips of his stuff. I did watch one episode of him and Jamie Kilstien talking about SJWs. I will also freely admit that I prefer to follow the scientific community as a whole rather then just some outlier.

He's had plenty of scientists on his show. You just don't hear about them because it doesn't get people all riled up. Hell, he had Bernie Sanders on and invited Biden to go on his show. His whole philosophy is to get as much info out to the people as possible and let them decide. He obviously has his own views on things, because he's human and not some news anchor puppet, but he doesn't argue with guests who have opposing views to him. If more interviewers could act like him then I honestly think people in this country would learn to tolerate opposing views a lot better.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Giving these clowns a platform allows them to brainwash the unsuspecting. So no, they dont get a platform. You dont get a platform to spew hate and falsehoods.

CNN, FOX, and other major news organizations are far more guilty of this than Joe Rogan.

 

[m4s73r]

He's had plenty of scientists on his show. You just don't hear about them because it doesn't get people all riled up. Hell, he had Bernie Sanders on and invited Biden to go on his show. His whole philosophy is to get as much info out to the people as possible and let them decide. He obviously has his own views on things, because he's human and not some news anchor puppet, but he doesn't argue with guests who have opposing views to him. If more interviewers could act like him then I honestly think people in this country would learn to tolerate opposing views a lot better.

Right on, I'll give more of his stuff a listen. Im all for getting people info, as long as its factual. I mean we all have the shit we like to listen to. Im a big Bill Maher fan. My dad used to watch him on his politically incorrect show back in the day. Been watching him for years.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Right on, I'll give more of his stuff a listen. Im all for getting people info, as long as its factual. I mean we all have the shit we like to listen to. Im a big Bill Maher fan. My dad used to watch him on his politically incorrect show back in the day. Been watching him for years.

Joe has had Bill on his podcast, too.

 

[ttystikk]

You would be right. I dont listen to much more than clips of his stuff. I did watch one episode of him and Jamie Kilstien talking about SJWs. I will also freely admit that I prefer to follow the scientific community as a whole rather then just some outlier.

Im going to have to agree to disagree with this. The Nazi party had a platform and they killed millions. Giving these clowns a platform allows them to brainwash the unsuspecting. So no, they dont get a platform. You dont get a platform to spew hate and falsehoods. And thinking that we can give people the "tools to think critically" will only lead to more suffering. We call justify horrible, outlandish things, if it justifies our rational. Thats how genocide happens. Think Native Americans. We brought them, taught them our language, religion, ect and yet we still slaughtered them.

The Nazis did not gain prominence and power by being given a platform; in fact, the more Germans knew about them, the less likely they were to support them. They flourished because they were able to hide and lie about their true nature and intentions and banning them from platforms only makes it easier for them to do so.

 

[m4s73r]

The Nazis did not gain prominence and power by being given a platform; in fact, the more Germans knew about them, the less likely they were to support them. They flourished because they were able to hide and lie about their true nature and intentions and banning them from platforms only makes it easier for them to do so.

Well they eventually became a political party and became the government. Hitler rise to power was the DAP. He became the party leader. Once wall street crashed and germany stopped getting money from the US did Hitler make his move. Germans were complacent and allowed an extremist to make speeches and have his "platform". And his whole thing was fear of a communist uprising lol. I mean the first concentration camp, Dachau was for communist and political opponents.

Love to debate. Love that its staying civil. Thank you all. I really come into these convos hoping my viewpoint can be changed/modified/clearer. But im not a accepting sop either. @TreeFarmerCharlie Been watching this episode of Joe for the last half hour. Thanks.

 

[Kushash]

Well they eventually became a political party and became the government. Hitler rise to power was the DAP. He became the party leader. Once wall street crashed and germany stopped getting money from the US did Hitler make his move. Germans were complacent and allowed an extremist to make speeches and have his "platform". And his whole thing was fear of a communist uprising lol. I mean the first concentration camp, Dachau was for communist and political opponents.

Love to debate. Love that its staying civil. Thank you all. I really come into these convos hoping my viewpoint can be changed/modified/clearer. But im not a accepting sop either. @TreeFarmerCharlie Been watching this episode of Joe for the last half hour. Thanks.

When this thread 1st took off, I was like uh oh this is not going to remain civil and yet it has turned out to be a nice back and forth to follow.

 

[ttystikk]

Well they eventually became a political party and became the government. Hitler rise to power was the DAP. He became the party leader. Once wall street crashed and germany stopped getting money from the US did Hitler make his move. Germans were complacent and allowed an extremist to make speeches and have his "platform". And his whole thing was fear of a communist uprising lol. I mean the first concentration camp, Dachau was for communist and political opponents.

Love to debate. Love that its staying civil. Thank you all. I really come into these convos hoping my viewpoint can be changed/modified/clearer. But im not a accepting sop either. @TreeFarmerCharlie Been watching this episode of Joe for the last half hour. Thanks.

I think that by your definition, the Republican Party would be outlawed.

The idea behind letting everyone have their say is twofold; first, everyone's ideas see the light of day, get debated- and found sound or wanting. Second, it keeps those dark corners from festering.

If our democracy isn't strong enough to handle a debate on Fascism, then it's too weak to stand up to anything.

 

[ttystikk]

When this thread 1st took off, I was like uh oh this is not going to remain civil and yet it has turned out to be a nice back and forth to follow.

Americans have to learn the skill of civil debate and that isn't happening in either of educational systems or the mass media or even the public square. Being able to discuss ideas with those who you disagree with is another foundation of democracy and, again, there are many forces who would destroy it for selfish purposes.

We must not let them.

 

[m4s73r]

I think that by your definition, the Republican Party would be outlawed.

The idea behind letting everyone have their say is twofold; first, everyone's ideas see the light of day, get debated- and found sound or wanting. Second, it keeps those dark corners from festering.

If our democracy isn't strong enough to handle a debate on Fascism, then it's too weak to stand up to anything.

See this I agree with 100. And I think its been found wanting already. My argument now is why are we STILL having this stupid debate. Theres nothing to debate anymore on fascism, white supremacy, totalitarianism or communism. I guess I just feel these issues have been debated and found wanting. We but that to bed. Had world wars over the shit. Its like we have forgotten everything we fought for. (EDIT: Leading back to education for sure!)

I think the entire party system needs to be divided. I dont really thing that either party properly represents the people who claim to support it. Its just become the team you're on when you want to get elected. nothing more. Bernie was a good example of that. 30 year as a independernt to jump on the Democrat train. Biden is a good example of someone whos invested in the party and has been rewarded accordingly. The 4 year election cycle is just a advertising scheme anymore. Both teams just represent the group of corporate donars that keeps them going. Do we have a Bush ready to run again, or maybe one of the Clinton kids? Shit maybe we got a new celebrity! Didnt the Rock say he was going to run?

 

[High kev]

This is what our political system has come to.

And for some reason I always end up vote if for the guy wearing the yellow shirt

 

[m4s73r]

When this thread 1st took off, I was like uh oh this is not going to remain civil and yet it has turned out to be a nice back and forth to follow.

Some people get super angry if they're wrong. But we have to be willing to be challeneged. I am listening to a second Joe Rogan Pod cast. I really enjoyed the one he did with Bill Maher and the format. laid back conversation was nice. I didnt realize how many of these he has done.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Some people get super angry if they're wrong. But we have to be willing to be challeneged. I am listening to a second Joe Rogan Pod cast. I really enjoyed the one he did with Bill Maher and the format. laid back conversation was nice. I didnt realize how many of these he has done.

Trust me when I say that I HAAAATE celebrities and the fact that so many people worship them. Every time I see one of those celebrity gossip shows come on I can’t grab the remote fast enough to shut it off. But I could see myself enjoying a smoke with Joe out on a back deck just shooting the shit about life. He’s seems like a very down to earth guy who really doesn’t seem to have a bad bone in his body. He talks about how DMT changed the way he looks at life and I think it really did change him. He used to be into a lot of conspiracy theories…to the point of where he did a show on them, and he laughs now about how he was never able to prove any of it.