Eso's seeds and pollen chucks

[H.A.F.]

I think the true breeders that want to charge $100-200 a pack is just fine. They better have good gear if they want me to buy a second pack, but I will if they do. My expectations as a consumer are higher.

For those just crossing stuff they acquired and didn't really breed at all there is still a customer base that doesn't give a shit about breeding. They wanted to try Cookies and Gelato and there it is in one pack! And that same $100 is probably gonna net me the same number of keepers or less than the $100 pack from "Bob that worked the line".

 

[Deleted member 60]

With clone-onlys the "work" to find a quality cultivar has been done....so yes....finding keepers is fairly easy. They did it >for you<. It's a far more bottlenecked gig that "working the lines." with the regs and doing the backcrosses/cubing/etc. to get to another level of "F". I'm talking a True "F2" from a true "F1". (not poly "F-1's)

IF it is truly special it may be worth the high prices some try to command....but when ya see Wedding Cake in it...or Cookies in it...it's pedestrian..not elite. That shit is everywhere. Again though...the guys who are rollin don;t care what the costs are. They are in the same mix. It's a wash.

But as things open up more...and more states go legal....I'll be surprised if these higher priced packs can survive the onslaught of 'breeders" to come....LOL.

And as it opens up...less folks overall will grow.....they will just go buy it at the store.....like beer.

 

[H.A.F.]

But as things open up more...and more states go legal....I'll be surprised if these higher priced packs can survive the onslaught of 'breeders" to come....LOL.

True, but if someone like Aficionado releases 300 packs each of 4 strains, they are gonna sell out. And that's also probably all they release for the year. If they were in it for the $$ they could release as many packs as they wanted at this point but it would destroy their niche of being limited stock, hard to get, etc. even though as more people come out of the woodworks some of their stories are coming into question.

I think a lot of the good American breeders are on the left coast. But when a state like Oklahoma drops the right laws without the tax-assfuck the elder states apply to their legalization, those breeders that are not attached to their terroir are gonna bail. If you can set up shop in a warehouse and aren't tied to the land like they are in Humbolt (for example) breeders "in Oklahoma" are gonna be from elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member 60]

I hope Joklahoma is spared the same shit Colorado went through when medical first hit in 2000. There were no limits then on the humber of 'cards" you could grab to be a "caregiver".....and the Cali growerss came here EN MASSE' and set up bigly/fucked our market good.....then the law changed (tightened BECAUSE Of THEM).....and then all of the cocksuckers packed up and left.

Without the "ass-fuck" taxes...it'd all still be illegal. The States/Government isn't doing any of this to further growing/the plant/etc. Nope.....it's another exercise in Captialism and fuckin up a good thing. I'd be super pissed if I hadn't already killed it for decades when there was real $$$ in the game. (and no taxes...LOL) Let em play!

Cali's laws are more lax than anywhere else. Those cats can still play/make bank on this game...thus.....the concentration of "breeders" and growers. The internet also opens it all up. Dunno about Cali dispensaries...but here...in my town...there aren't any seeds for sale in the shops. They wanna sell you weed @ $12 a gram...not seeds. It isn't as free/open/available of a market as some tend to believe....simply because weed is "legal".

Bottom line....I can smoke the $50 a pack shit and be just as high as the $300 a pack shit. It's all hype. Hype makes money. Hype makes fools.

 

[H.A.F.]

Nope.....it's another exercise in Captialism and fuckin up a good thing.

You use the word, but I don't think you understand what it means. It has NOTHING to do with taxes.
Capitalism is I grow an apple, you want an apple, I agree to sell you an apple for an agreed upon price or barter. Period. Government has jack shit to do with capitalism no matter what CNN says.

 

[H.A.F.]

As far as the market being open to everyone - how can that be bad? Sure lots of them will fail, that is the same in any new industry. Can you say internet start-up in the days before Microsoft and Google?

 

[H.A.F.]

Giving Joe the awesome breeder with three tents and a dream the freedom to succeed or fail at the same level as the guy that can drop 7 figures in start-up cash is what it is to be in America. States like Florida that set hoops that only their crony bigwig friends and campaign donors could jump through is not capitalism.

 

[Deleted member 60]

It is what it is and you can believe whatever Fable you want. But to think the Government is gonna allow you/me/the little guy to play in his closet and then make bank....alongside of highly regulated/monitored businesses... is a fool's dream. Such regulation is why so many left Colorado in the early days of med. The State changed the law and required them to divulge the address/location of their grow if they were a caregiver for more than 5 folks...and all of the 'up and up" closet folks weren't gonna do that...and we all know why. Nobody was paying any taxes and were making 6 figures...that's why...LOL. Sure was fun while it lasted....but there's what happens when you let Joe loose with his tents and his money dream.

Our laws reflect "Joe" all fuckin day here. Joe SHOULD pay taxes cus he's allowed to play a game we all risked everything to play. That's a damn small price to pay for freedom...and shit....someone has to pay those taxes for them to be able to send you a check every month to live off of...right?

It's all wayyyyy above your head. Why do you care if you don;t sell...as you claim? Just grow and be happy you can...and that they aren't coming.

If you haven't lived wth THAT fear...it's you that doesn't "understand" why taxes ain't no big thing in this mix....

 

[m4s73r]

But the market isn't open to everyone. In my state you better have a quarter million to even start the application process for business cultivation. We are still under prohibition. Until the day that we don't have plant limits, caregiver cards, prescriptions, dry weight restrictions, selling restriction, we are under prohibition. The only reason that states are even legalizing it is for Tax money. Cause in this country, if it dont make money, its bad. If it helps people, its bad. Capitalism says if it dont turn a profit, its bad.

 

[Deleted member 60]

In Colorado.....there are no licenses or ins to play the game. For the short time there.....cultivation or edible manufacturer licenses were available...but they were also very limited (I think they were about 25K if you could get one) ...and to get one you had to divulge EVERY ASPECT of your world/finances/etc to the State via a SCARY 30 page application.

On the whole here though.... ONLY those folks who stepped out on the limb and set up medical dispensaries...before their was truly ANY law addressing it other than the word "dispense" in the verbiage of our med law....were allowed to proceed into the "Recreational" sales scenario. All of the sudden there were med shops....and med weed/etc being sold in the open... and it snowballed from there. I lost 25+ years of connections and a solid flow out the door....but it it what it is.....and I made a buncha $$$ before the fall/before my peers jumped into bed with the State. It was my career. Solely. (hint: No unemployment check either when things went belly up...those fuckers...LOL) The bottom fell out very quickly...lemme tell ya.

And I DO hear ya about "prohibition"...cus yes...there are still laws and limits pertaining to all of it here if you step outside the set limits that are "legal". But....the likilihood of them coming to bust you/check plant counts/etc. is fairly nil now. No "Drug Task Force" in every county looking for weed/busting down doors like the old days. It's not perfect...for sure...but they leave us alone now and I sleep much better than I did for about 2 decades there.

Funny though...every single one of US who ever sold (or still sell) nug for profit...NEVER had a problem playing "Capitalist".....until that is...,.we are forced to play by the rules. Some even whine when they are tasked with the same burdens other businesses are burdened by..like licensing and inspections and taxes and all of that other standard business shit. LOFL. "But..but..but...why can't I just grow and sell from home and compete with on the same level those who have spent bigly to set up a brick and mortar and who are regulated/inspected/fucked with by the State? That isn't fair...wahhhh." Seriously? Momma must not a told you that you (and your closet grow) just wasn't THAT special...so now the State has to. LOL....gulp. Seriously?

I have no problem with taxes.....I do think weed has become a scapegoat/catch all here for tax $$$ though. We just nixxed another bill here that would have added even MORE tax to the 20%+ that is already in place on Recreational sales. They do give the med folks a break...they only pay State tax...like 3%.... but the rest of the "industry" (OK...their customers) get taxed to fuck. How about we tax GUN SALES exactly the same way? Liquor? Ciggies? Oh my...that just won't be tolerated....now would it? Guns are Godly...liquor isn't a drug to most...ciggies are fresh air.......and weed is STILL the scourge.....and that discrimination when it comes to tax rates shows that fact very well.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Liquor? Ciggies? Oh my...that just won't be tolerated....now would it? Guns are Godly...liquor isn't a drug to most...ciggies are fresh air.......and weed is STILL the scourge.....and that discrimination when it comes to tax rates shows that fact very well.

I agree with most of what you said but I don't agree with this. IMO, everything should fall under standard sales tax. I personally think "sin tax" is just another form of over reaching government control and that it takes advantage of people who are addicted to alcohol and tobacco. The questions wouldn't be "why aren't tobacco, alcohol, and gun sales taxed the same way as cannabis?" It should be "Why do we tolerate the ridiculous taxes associated with cannabis?" I also think that home growers should be able to sell cannabis, just as gardeners are permitted to sell the tomatoes and other fruits/vegetables they grow, but I also understand that would be difficult to implement because of the age limits and no way to make sure home growers are selling only to adults.

 

[H.A.F.]

Some even whine when they are tasked with the same burdens other businesses are burdened by..like licensing and inspections and taxes and all of that other standard business shit. LOFL. "But..but..but...why can't I just grow and sell from home and compete with on the same level those who have spent bigly to set up a brick and mortar and who are regulated/inspected/fucked with by the State? That isn't fair...wahhhh." Seriously? Momma must not a told you that you (and your closet grow) just wasn't THAT special...so now the State has to. LOL....gulp. Seriously?

I have no problem with taxes.....I do think weed has become a scapegoat/catch all here for tax $$$ though. We just nixxed another bill here that would have added even MORE tax to the 20%+ that is already in place on Recreational sales. They do give the med folks a break...they only pay State tax...like 3%.... but the rest of the "industry" (OK...their customers) get taxed to fuck. How about we tax GUN SALES exactly the same way? Liquor? Ciggies? Oh my...that just won't be tolerated....now would it? Guns are Godly...liquor isn't a drug to most...ciggies are fresh air.......and weed is STILL the scourge.....and that discrimination when it comes to tax rates shows that fact very well.

Why is it that it is taxed at such an exorbitant amount compared to ANY OTHER commodity? That is NOT, I repeat NOT capitalism. Stop using that word. If they wanted to apply the standard state sales tax no one would care. If counties and cities didn't want to exact their own pound of flesh on top of the state tax how is that legal? How can you sales tax a company more than 50% of their income (not profit) then expect them to pay income tax on top of that, pay wages, pay unemployment insurance, pay for any and every inspection and regulatory fee the gubmint hands down, and still keep their own supply chain intact? NONE of this is capitalism. I promise, look it up.

 

[H.A.F.]

I agree with most of what you said but I don't agree with this. IMO, everything should fall under standard sales tax. I personally think "sin tax" is just another form of over reaching government control and that it takes advantage of people who are addicted to alcohol and tobacco. The questions wouldn't be "why aren't tobacco, alcohol, and gun sales taxed the same way as cannabis?" It should be "Why do we tolerate the ridiculous taxes associated with cannabis?" I also think that home growers should be able to sell cannabis, just as gardeners are permitted to sell the tomatoes and other fruits/vegetables they grow, but I also understand that would be difficult to implement because of the age limits and no way to make sure home growers are selling only to adults.

Then you have to ask about their gubmint age limits. Why are they there? Same reason as weed laws - put people in the legal system and keep them there. How old were you when you had your first drink? Smoke? Joint? Did any of these even closely approximate the gubmint age limit? Me neither. This is gubmint parenting, not law enforcement.

 

[Shua1991]

But the market isn't open to everyone. In my state you better have a quarter million to even start the application process for business cultivation. We are still under prohibition. Until the day that we don't have plant limits, caregiver cards, prescriptions, dry weight restrictions, selling restriction, we are under prohibition. The only reason that states are even legalizing it is for Tax money. Cause in this country, if it dont make money, its bad. If it helps people, its bad. Capitalism says if it dont turn a profit, its bad.

Preach brother

 

[Deleted member 60]

Laws are in place in our society >because< people cannot self regulate. (Heehee...been there...grew/sold that) Took the risk. It paid off. Well.

Some see a world with unfettered >everything<.....with no limits or standards... as "freedom". Others are smart enough to look around and see that such an approach would only breed chaos with the legion of chuckleheads we've raised in this land of late.

And hey...no one has EVER stopped anyone from setting up shop and selling weed! Many of us did it without a nod...facing severe penalties for the inifraction should we be caught. Nothing is stopping anyone @ this point in time either.....other than the fact that some want a red carpet placed before them with protection from criminal charges without playing the game that...like it or not...is well in place for many reasons.

Taxes are the ONLY reason we have the "legal" set up we have here. Again......IF you don't sell...which I doubt is true...WHY does it affect you in any way, shape of form? I don;t buy their weed/products...so I pay no tax. It affects me not. On the whole.....1imo.....the high taxes actually make illegal sales a bit more likely behind the scenes...cus anybody can beat those prices if they have folks interested in making a purchase/etc.

 

[Old ST1R]

Sin Taxes are designed to reduce consumption of that which is taxed. It’s generally applied to things that are bad for you and make you sick.

 

[m4s73r]

I agree with most of what you said but I don't agree with this. IMO, everything should fall under standard sales tax. I personally think "sin tax" is just another form of over reaching government control and that it takes advantage of people who are addicted to alcohol and tobacco. The questions wouldn't be "why aren't tobacco, alcohol, and gun sales taxed the same way as cannabis?" It should be "Why do we tolerate the ridiculous taxes associated with cannabis?" I also think that home growers should be able to sell cannabis, just as gardeners are permitted to sell the tomatoes and other fruits/vegetables they grow, but I also understand that would be difficult to implement because of the age limits and no way to make sure home growers are selling only to adults.

I want cannabis to be like the microbrewery scene.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

I want cannabis to be like the microbrewery scene.

Same here

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Taxes are the ONLY reason we have the "legal" set up we have here. Again......IF you don't sell...which I doubt is true...WHY does it affect you in any way, shape of form? I don;t buy their weed/products...so I pay no tax. It affects me not. On the whole.....1imo.....the high taxes actually make illegal sales a bit more likely behind the scenes...cus anybody can beat those prices if they have folks interested in making a purchase/etc.

I have a close friend who has offered to pay me what it costs him to purchase flower at a dispensary, including taxes. He said he'd rather give that money to a friend than to the state and corporate cannabis.

 

[Shua1991]

Having

Then you have to ask about their gubmint age limits. Why are they there? Same reason as weed laws - put people in the legal system and keep them there. How old were you when you had your first drink? Smoke? Joint? Did any of these even closely approximate the gubmint age limit? Me neither. This is gubmint parenting, not law enforcement.

Why is it that it is taxed at such an exorbitant amount compared to ANY OTHER commodity? That is NOT, I repeat NOT capitalism. Stop using that word. If they wanted to apply the standard state sales tax no one would care. If counties and cities didn't want to exact their own pound of flesh on top of the state tax how is that legal? How can you sales tax a company more than 50% of their income (not profit) then expect them to pay income tax on top of that, pay wages, pay unemployment insurance, pay for any and every inspection and regulatory fee the gubmint hands down, and still keep their own supply chain intact? NONE of this is capitalism. I promise, look it up.

Your weed is worth only so much. We ain't trading in gold coins anymore, it's all backed by the gubmint and the military.