Newbie chuckers stupid questions

[HemporioAfghani]

Hi everyone new in town and im sure its a pretty normal story but still
so a friend is engaging in a medium size mother hunt (20-30) regular seeds, im planing on taking the males while they go through the females when they are identified my plan was to flower them and collect pollen from each male separately label dry freeze it for storage with hopes of pollinating a clone from the winner of my friends mother hunt with each male to make seeds ....
what kind of quality wil;l the seeds be?
im i doing anything wrong ?
any advice?
this will be my first seed run

 

[Opie1]

I’d probably just keep/collect from a couple, maybe 3, depending on how I liked them.

 

[HemporioAfghani]

thanks for the reply
any tips that would help me pick the right stud?

 

[Opie1]

thanks for the reply
any tips that would help me pick the right stud?

Structure, frost (if any), smell, flowering speed, tightly formed clusters of the pollen sacs.

 

[HemporioAfghani]

sweet well hopefully il get some quality documentation going when the time comes...
thanks for steering me right

 

[J.James]

Working with male plants is basically trial and error. Find yourself a male using stem rub, vigor, and structure. Pair it with a female plant that YOU have experience with and see what you get. To work males you need to keep males alive for years. Pollen is not viable for very long no matter what you do with it.

 

[H.A.F.]

Working with male plants is basically trial and error. Find yourself a male using stem rub, vigor, and structure. Pair it with a female plant that YOU have experience with and see what you get. To work males you need to keep males alive for years. Pollen is not viable for very long no matter what you do with it.

That sounds like LOTS of cloning

 

[HemporioAfghani]

@J.James
that's interesting, i had heard it stores well in a freezer if you keep it dry but perhaps that's still not that long a shelf life over all.
my plan wasent so much trying to get a "superior male" for future projects (although i might just keep it if that's the best option)
as much as just trying to preserve as meany potential expressions in some regular seeds so
that i can hunt the line again in future without shelling out the big bucks for a reload
also practice making seeds...

i figured if i manage the regulars i will try to self some fems from her just to have the best of both worlds.
in that situation am i better to take 2 clones reverse one clone then use it to pollinate the other identical clone
or is it beer to do all the work on one clone literally self pollinating?

 

[H.A.F.]

@J.James
that's interesting, i had heard it stores well in a freezer if you keep it dry but perhaps that's still not that long a shelf life over all.
my plan wasent so much trying to get a "superior male" for future projects (although i might just keep it if that's the best option)
as much as just trying to preserve as meany potential expressions in some regular seeds so
that i can hunt the line again in future without shelling out the big bucks for a reload
also practice making seeds...

i figured if i manage the regulars i will try to self some fems from her just to have the best of both worlds.
in that situation am i better to take 2 clones reverse one clone then use it to pollinate the other identical clone
or is it beer to do all the work on one clone literally self pollinating?

Take this with a grain of salt - I haven't made seeds (on purpose) but I read a LOT in preparation for a chuck that never happened.

I know for feminizing you don't want to reverse a branch and them polenate that same plant with it, so clones. Probably best to keep the mom, then reverse one clone and hit another clone with it. Just in case something fucks up you can try again.

I think the difference between breeders and chuckers is males. Keeping a stud male around (after finding one) gives you a step up on anyone using random males with known or unknown quality females. The male is 50% of your genetics, and if it's shit your seeds are too.

I don't have the time or space to keep father plants, but keeping one in veg while you breed with his clones would provide most of that info. But you're talking about waiting until you pollenate something, harvest and dry the seeds, grow the seeds, dry and cure, and smoke the stuff - all while keeping the male in veg.

 

[J.James]

Sounds like you should do a large open pollination. Get as many plants as you can and let them all flower out together (Offset the males by 10 days) and let the males naturally release pollen for two weeks and collect it for the freezer before you chop them down. I personally would take clones and hold them in veg until you are sure the seeds are viable. That would mix together as much genetic material as you can to preserve it in seed form.

When you reverse a plant you don't want to collect seeds from the same plant sprayed. You reverse one and pollinate a clone of the same plant Its called Selfing (S1). S1 plants are feminized seeds that should hold true to the parental plant. If you use the pollen to pollinate another strain it still produces feminized seed but with a wider gene pool.

 

[H.A.F.]

Colin from Ethos Genetics answers a few feminized questions and some general breeding stuff that's right down your alley.

 

[HemporioAfghani]

@J.James
so do i start the male 10 days earlier or 10 days later?
also can you please check i have the pros and cons of each option straight
(thank you for the help much appreciated)

mass pollination
i don't loose any of the genes that came in the pack
and that gives me the most genetic diversity i can get out of what we have i

Single male x Single female
id have a narrower spectrum of seeds but would preserve something closer to the selected mother also with the males expressions
in a regular seed

S1
preserve her in feminized it would be me taking 2 cuts from the mom reversing one clone then pollinating the other clone

 

[HemporioAfghani]

@H.A.F.
the mother plant would stay safe il even be keeping the males in veg at least short term im just playing with clones really
i think i might try to keep my favorite male to make some attempt at F1 stock in future i have time space im short on
but if im keeping a male il clone it bonsai the clone and keep that under a low wattage until i need it should work
ive certainly seen many bonsai moms so why not dads?
il have to look that video up because the link wont let me click through and wont play in the thread all beacase age restrictions im even sighned into the damd YT ... so what the video title?

 

[H.A.F.]

@H.A.F.
the mother plant would stay safe il even be keeping the males in veg at least short term im just playing with clones really
i think i might try to keep my favorite male to make some attempt at F1 stock in future i have time space im short on
but if im keeping a male il clone it bonsai the clone and keep that under a low wattage until i need it should work
ive certainly seen many bonsai moms so why not dads?
il have to look that video up because the link wont let me click through and wont play in the thread all beacase age restrictions im even sighned into the damd YT ... so what the video title?

The Ethos Way: Colin From Ethos Genetics On Growing & Breeding Next Level Cannabis - YouTube

That's a link to the page, and title. The Dude-Grows Show.

I think a lot of this depends on your end goal. If you just want to make beans for fun and friends then whatever you want is right. If you are wanting to start a company I think you really need to find/make a unique strain to start with. Find a terp or flavor you like and work that. Having the same male (that's good) for consistency so you know what each female is giving you can't hurt.

Finding a male that's good would definitely mean keeping a few in veg for a while. At least long enough to (for example) check two males against clones from the same female, harvest the beans, grow the beans, and smoke them. Then see which male did what.

 

[H.A.F.]

Also, I bugged the hell out of @J.James when I was thinking about a chuck. You place the male into flower 10 days later.

so do i start the male 10 days earlier or 10 days later?

That should have the males putting out pollen when the flowers are at their peak of pistil production.

If you are just testing crosses for yourself and don't need a lot, you can put them in at the same time, or any time shorter than 10 days. The initial pollenation will happen when there are fewer pistils so you'll get fewer beans, but they should be larger, have a higher fem rate, and also get done quicker.

This is assuming you pull the male as soon as he has splooged everything so that all your beans mature at the same time. If you leave him in they will keep pollenating until the female stops putting out pistils and shifts fully to growing the beans.

 

[J.James]

@J.James
so do i start the male 10 days earlier or 10 days later?
also can you please check i have the pros and cons of each option straight
(thank you for the help much appreciated)

mass pollination
i don't loose any of the genes that came in the pack
and that gives me the most genetic diversity i can get out of what we have i

Single male x Single female
id have a narrower spectrum of seeds but would preserve something closer to the selected mother also with the males expressions
in a regular seed

S1
preserve her in feminized it would be me taking 2 cuts from the mom reversing one clone then pollinating the other clone

put the male in the flower cycle 10+ days after the female plants. This allows the female to gather and store nutrients and produce a good amount of white hairs for maximum seed yield. More hairs = More potential seed spots

Sounds like you got the rest down except I feel the need to point out that you will always potentially lose recessive genetic traits as you breed plants together. Breeders generally work on a small scale in comparison to nature and breeding with only a few plants can potentially refine a line down dramatically from the original cross.

 

[oldsilvertip]

this thread has made me look at things in a different way!

 

[Lanestrainley]

thanks for the reply
any tips that would help me pick the right stud?

IME I look for:

1: Structure (above and below substrate)
root structure is very important, that’s why I take at least one more than I need to inspect the root zone and what type of roots it makes,
2: Vigour
3: Stem scent/thickness/cell wall structure
4: Leaf scent (usually different)
5: The flower clusters’ size and tightness
6: A hollow stem is a very good sign
7: How long it takes to reassign auxins after being cut or bent.
8: You’ll only know this after a while, but consistently is a over looked trait. If the male consistency passes on something YOU like or VALUE then that needs to go down in the notes as well.
9: Some females prefer to mate with certain males over others, I found this out over years and years of wondering just what the fuck was going on. It’s a long story but after a small experiment I conducted I had some very interesting results, after a few months of discussion and campfire meetings, I gave my notes and plants to a trusted colleague and he then attempted to debunk what I had found, he couldn’t, the numbers all told the same story.

That’s just 2 guys and a “study” lol, but I have noticed this in the 26yrs Ive been at it. So if you have a male that your females only makes a small amount of seeds vs how much viable pollen you have in favourable settings, you could have a mismatch on your hands and not a bum male or a bum female. One way to find this is by taking even amounts of KNOWN male pollen content and mixing it in a carrier, apply it to multiple females, then wait for the results. I guarantee you find that one of the males will have high rate of appearance.

10: Don’t give up, it can be a very tedious and time consuming process to find AND KEEP a stable of studs. That’s why my male area is my most important and most looked after zone, followed by my moms, then nursery depending on the stage then flower, then veg.

I hope this helps, it took me many years to figure this out.
Happy hunting

 

[Big Terps]

IME I look for:

1: Structure (above and below substrate)
root structure is very important, that’s why I take at least one more than I need to inspect the root zone and what type of roots it makes,
2: Vigour
3: Stem scent/thickness/cell wall structure
4: Leaf scent (usually different)
5: The flower clusters’ size and tightness
6: A hollow stem is a very good sign
7: How long it takes to reassign auxins after being cut or bent.
8: You’ll only know this after a while, but consistently is a over looked trait. If the male consistency passes on something YOU like or VALUE then that needs to go down in the notes as well.
9: Some females prefer to mate with certain males over others, I found this out over years and years of wondering just what the fuck was going on. It’s a long story but after a small experiment I conducted I had some very interesting results, after a few months of discussion and campfire meetings, I gave my notes and plants to a trusted colleague and he then attempted to debunk what I had found, he couldn’t, the numbers all told the same story.

That’s just 2 guys and a “study” lol, but I have noticed this in the 26yrs Ive been at it. So if you have a male that your females only makes a small amount of seeds vs how much viable pollen you have in favourable settings, you could have a mismatch on your hands and not a bum male or a bum female. One way to find this is by taking even amounts of KNOWN male pollen content and mixing it in a carrier, apply it to multiple females, then wait for the results. I guarantee you find that one of the males will have high rate of appearance.

10: Don’t give up, it can be a very tedious and time consuming process to find AND KEEP a stable of studs. That’s why my male area is my most important and most looked after zone, followed by my moms, then nursery depending on the stage then flower, then veg.

I hope this helps, it took me many years to figure this out.
Happy hunting

Good info man..
Had a quick question for u..
Why on your list, (#6) did say that hollow stems was a good sign?
Just curious?
Thx

 

[Lanestrainley]

Lol I can’t even internet properly, I had to get my niece to show me how to answer you. Lol hahaha