General N P K and strength question.

[gwheels]

Jacks is 10-30-20
ADvances is more like 5 5 6

People say be careful its too hot...doesnt the TDS meter show you if its hot?

Jacks is concentrated for sure. 2 teaspoons in 5 gallons got me to 850TDS from 10. (10 30 20). I will try it in a couple of plants through transition.

Or is it something like at 500 TDS that product will burn your plants and you can push the other gentler product to 1200?

Next one...and this one i am really going crazy over but i think i am going to get an excel sheet and break it down to the elements in the nutes to make the bloom formula i want, with what i have.

For bloom...after the transition and as we pack on bud production and mass, what is the ideal ratio for N P K ?


Megacrop is 9-6-17. Nitrogen is high but what it really needs is a phosphorus boost for bloom. I think i have to go some with full run and the booster to see. I did get some juicy buds in coco pots before with it.
Dynagrow Foliage PRO is 9-3-6 or 3-1-2 ratio
Dynagrow Bloom is 3-12-6 or 1-4-2 ratio.

Jacks Bloom Booster is 10-30-20 or 1-3-2 ratio and whats interesting is they recomend it only for transition to reduce stretch and internode distance through stretch (and boost bud site production with the high P, sort of just like Dynagrow Bloom).It would seem this should work through the entire bloom but i want to see what they say about it. I am calling them tomorrow to see what ratios they recommend for cannabis in the period after transition and before flush, the 4 to 6 weeks of actual BLOOM. It
GH Trio works out to 7-6-10 at equal mix (3-3-5?)
AN Trio...who cares. I am on my last bottles forever. I will switch to Dynagrow before i go back (FP is 120 CDN for the same coverage as AN by the gallon. The AN is 160 the best i can ever get on sale so DG is cheaper).
What is the best. I believe it might be debatable but man i am going to see what i can do to help. My small mass buds are a result of me messing around with weak 700 TDS solutions. Time to pump it up. 1000 or less or hit the bricks baby you cant handle the bloom.
I have 0-26-37 bloom booster too so i can manipulate EVERYTHING.

Thanks !

 

[KMOG]

Imo it’s sort of deceiving because 10-30-20 is the same as 1-3-2 , just labeled different. I always reduce and go by that. So advanced is way closer to balanced overall as a 1-1-1.1 vs jack 1-3-2.

 

[gwheels]

They make a General Purpose at 20 20 20 which is 1-1-1.

A product just to bloom. Week 5 to 8 of 12-12 schedule should be more like.

1-2-3
1-2-2
1-3-2

I think...maybe..?

and 10 30 20 is just really strong. 1 tsp made 5 gallons of RO water go up 500 TDS. that is serious strong. And Eureka...it is Phosporus that reduces PH and that is why Dynagrow bloom AND Jacks both need ph up when you measure them out.

5 gallons at 800TDS of 10 30 20 dropped TDS from 7.0 to 4.7 DG goes to 4.2 so EUREKA and the reading and it all made sense.

It is also why a balanced product will PH out pretty well where you need it for coco coir...so if anyone used it drain to waste it would have worked without a PH pen forever with RO water.

But you add a high Phosphorous product and that would cause all sorts of PH lockouts. The pen is handy TDS and PH..i would be screwed without them.

 

[sfrigon1]

I feel like 1 3 3 or 1 4 4 would be perfect. Shit always bugged me about flower girl . It's 3 9 4 .

 

[KMOG]

I like using 1-1-1 as a base. But in veg I end up a 2-1-1 or 2-2-1 and in bloom usually 2-1-2 first few weeks then 1-2-3 or 1-3-2 depending on what they need. Reading your plants is the easiest way to know what they need more or less of.

 

[H.A.F.]

Imo it’s sort of deceiving because 10-30-20 is the same as 1-3-2 , just labeled different.

If you see something with one or two high numbers, it is because there was no lower common denominator to divide all three

It's 3 9 4

Math - can't reduce all three numbers by any one number

The way I see it, with each specific nute you are going for the ratio of N-to-P-to-K. You are probably going by ppm at some point on how much you add to a gallon of water. At a different stage of growth I am just using a different nute with a different ratio

 

[H.A.F.]

I think one of the fox farms flower crystals is like 0-50-30. Crazy high on the PK, but if you are only adding 100ppm of it (for example) - it is what it is, a boost in two elements but not the other.

All the stuff I use now is way more balanced.

 

[BigBallzWillie]

If you see something with one or two high numbers, it is because there was no lower common denominator to divide all three


Math - can't reduce all three numbers by any one number

....

Sure you can 3*9*4 they are all divisible. Let's use 3.............then it becomes 1*3*1.3. You may not get a whole number for an answer, but they'll divide all day long.

 

[H.A.F.]

Sure you can 3*9*4 they are all divisible. Let's use 3.............then it becomes 1*3*1.3. You may not get a whole number for an answer, but they'll divide all day long.

True - and some choose to use the decimal on the packaging.

 

[KMOG]

If you see something with one or two high numbers, it is because there was no lower common denominator to divide all three


Math - can't reduce all three numbers by any one number

The way I see it, with each specific nute you are going for the ratio of N-to-P-to-K. You are probably going by ppm at some point on how much you add to a gallon of water. At a different stage of growth I am just using a different nute with a different ratio

Logic would agree with you but with the example of Jackie 10-30-20, it’s 1-3-2 I’m assuming because of the concentration they decided to use higher numbers in their case so you don’t fry your plants lol.

 

[gwheels]

10 30 20 is 10 times stronger than 1 3 2. That is the key difference is the concentration.

The ratios can go down to the common denominator but it is there to show you it is 10 X as strong as a 1 3 2 formula would be (and most cannabis blends come in around 5 5 7 or so.

It takes 5 teaspoons of AN Trio to get to the same TDS as 1 1/2 teaspoons of Advanced Nutrients trio.

 

[Turpman]

An excel spread sheet is the way to go. I use it to compare nutes and when stacking. It’s nice to see what PPM everything is at as a total. Rather than just guessing.
I have it set up so I can just input water volume and g. of each nute and it totals to the right.
Nitrogen is an equal % in the conversion P and K are not if it says 10% you actually get a lower ppm. You have to times each by a ratio. I’ll post some pick tomorrow when I have access to my sheet.
It’s pretty easy for ones who know their way around excell a bit.

 

[gwheels]

Thanks Turpman !

That is what i need. There used to be one that was premade someplace but i will produce my own. The ratios will really help me to fine tune it a lot better than trial and error. It works but sometimes you get to WD40 before it works etc.

 

[BigBallzWillie]

Logic would agree with you but with the example of Jackie 10-30-20, it’s 1-3-2 I’m assuming because of the concentration they decided to use higher numbers in their case so you don’t fry your plants lol.

There is a reason for the higher numbers, however it escapes me at the moment. But generally, higher numbers are listed on synthetics, lower numbers on organics. It'll come to me........when I don't know

10 30 20 is the same ratio as 1 3 2

 

[gwheels]

It takes way more 1 3 2 to get to say 800 TDS than 10 30 20.

That is the difference. And i am not sure if it is hotter at a given TDS. That is what i have to figure out.

or does the presence of the nutrient always reflect in the TDS so 800 will always burn like 800...which i dont believe is true.

Most garden shit says something very scientific like...10 30 20 is stronger so use less.....maybe i can find that utah professor giving a seminar !

 

[BigBallzWillie]

I think you're right. The numbers are a ratio and if they have not been reduced totally, they are stronger.

Speaks about it here GOOGLEBOOKS

 

[Turpman]

The numbers are % so ya bigger # = more LOL
It seems I can get away with more PPM using Jacks. Mind you I’m pretty light on ppm usually. I run 400ish in veg. Been using Jacks at 600ish veg and things look nice.

You can almost tell when people are pushing hard when you see all the new growth all curly narly looking. Like the over watered look. Nute raped LOL
I’ll get my calc up later.
I find K is high on most base nutes. Then you add a booster and K is through the roof. I picked up some adders that are mostly One element P in one bag K in the other but haven’t used yet.
Too bad Canada is crap for picking up all the elements by their self. I’d try mixing my own.

 

[gwheels]

for me 400 is seedlings and maybe finishing (seedling after plain water period)

Veg is 600 to 800 (everything)

Bloom 750 sucks so i go with 1000 now. I will try and not go to 1400 but man i like those buds.



Less is never more. Math is absolute.

I will push them as hard as i can until i see the weird shit...clawing and nitrogen single blade weird shit.

But i like a 700 TDS veg for growth. Lush and green. I think with RO water you can push it harder.

just load it with calmag first...i always go 100 TDS min and usually 150 with all mixes and then max it out at 700. so about 550 to 600 TDS of veg stuff

always coco coir in a pot or water systems using hydroton or coco

 

[Turpman]

Something like this.
Grey are constants, green is total. Yellow inputs. Totals to the right.

 

[Turpman]

Hears an example of the math.
The metric system makes things much easier to figure out.

If you take something that is 10% and mix 1g into 1L you get 100ppm
Hear the calc for N.
Grams /litersx10x%=PPM not too bad eh. 1/10x10x8.5=85ppm


That was easy, all are the same calc but P and K.
P205 and K20 do not contain 100% P2O5 is 43% P and K2O is 83%. So that has to be entered into the calc.
Like so.

So if you add 1g to 1L of 6% p2O5 you don't get 60PPM you get 26.2 PPM I'm not sure why company's label the way they do because it is quite disceving.