Under Canopy Lighting?

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SimpleJak

Tugg Speedman
Thank you guys for adding your inputs on this. It always refreshing to hear all the differing perspectives. Cost is a big deal for most growers by far. I think a lot of growers get into growing initially because you can save so much money. Then the passion just sticks from there. And like a lot of you say on here... it becomes therapeutic and part of us/our routines.

A lot of new growers will be getting started as legalization happens in each state and this is definitely an aspect to consider.

@NoWaistedSpace That is actually an interesting idea!
 
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1oldfart

Insanely Active Member
H.A.F. said:
I used to spend about $250/oz per month getting deals for bulk when I could - stretching it until the next hookup, etc. That's my weed part of the budget. That budget already covers bills and groceries and such. And if I need it for something else that's cool.

But this is my main hobby. It's almost like an entertainment expense now to keep me sane. Now that all my tents and lights are already bought, ventillation and fans, I am not buying fertilizers, ph meters, calmag, etc. I do buy inputs for the soil but those are way cheaper and stretch. I like Down to Earth for minerals and Build-a-soil for other stuff IF they have free shipping on it.

But I make my own castings and vermicompost, do ferments from thing I have collected or harvested, LAB from rice and old milk, Calcium from eggshells and vinegar . . . all that stuff.

Big thing for me is getting the mulch for my indoor compost right from the plant. If I don't smoke it, it goes right back into the soil in some form. even the little stems I pick from the buds get tossed in a bucket with chopped up trunks and woody limbs from harvest. I have made bio-char with it, but am saving up enough to do a little hugel bed or something. I am up to a gallon of less than one inch pieces LOL All the pruned stuff during the grow gets dried, ground up and amended back into the soil.

I save money but I spend time.
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@ H.A.F. cold water rincse on the rice then add that to milk?
 
H.A.F.

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
1oldfart said:
@ H.A.F. cold water rincse on the rice then add that to milk?
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It's been a while since I had to make any but there's video's. I think maybe you let the rice and water or the rice water itself sit for a few days or more before adding it to milk? Watch a video. I know it takes a bit to get the parts together.
 
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1oldfart

Insanely Active Member
SimpleJak said:
Thank you guys for adding your inputs on this. It always refreshing to hear all the differing perspectives. Cost is a big deal for most growers by far. I think a lot of growers get into growing initially because you can save so much money. Then the passion just sticks from there. And like a lot of you say on here... it becomes therapeutic and part of us/our routines.

A lot of new growers will be getting started as legalization happens in each state and this is definitely an aspect to consider.

@NoWaistedSpace That is actually an interesting idea!
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my better half tells me after i've been messing with the plants my attiude is different ,now she will say somthing when she thinks i need to check things in the garden!
 
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1oldfart

Insanely Active Member
H.A.F. said:
It's been a while since I had to make any but there's video's. I think maybe you let the rice and water or the rice water itself sit for a few days or more before adding it to milk? Watch a video. I know it takes a bit to get the parts together.
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thanks i will try and dig that vid up for sure!i am real sure i have rice and all ,maybe.:)
 
H.A.F.

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
1oldfart said:
my better half tells me after i've been messing with the plants my attiude is different ,now she will say somthing when she thinks i need to check things in the garden!
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I have all the smoke I need. The constant dropping of more plants is because the gardening is medicine. I have two tents shut down now, and a closet for tall plants that has a single plant in it. Just taking a break and letting amended soil rest, but it means I can drop as much as I want next, or ease back into the monthly drop rotation. The outside garden is done for the year and now I have room for whatever.

Being truly retired with no need to snag extra income I found a great way to stay busy - but if I want to be a lazy stoner today I can do that too ;)
 
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1oldfart

Insanely Active Member
H.A.F. said:
Nah dude - you already have the boat and motor - and NOW it needs fixed, tuned up, overhauled, whatever... Minimum $1K.
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have two with rod thru block both two stroke motors ,have a place to resleeve ,bore,hone but blocks are junk , needa new four stroke ,the boat i could fill it with water and use it for a hot tub a 20ft. with a 70 inch in the bottom is hell to row with oares! the water moves fairly fast around here , wind at the lake will make you hunt a bay fast.have a big trolling motor but it do'nt last long enough
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Nerd Gone Vertical
SimpleJak said:
Thank you guys for adding your inputs on this. It always refreshing to hear all the differing perspectives. Cost is a big deal for most growers by far. I think a lot of growers get into growing initially because you can save so much money. Then the passion just sticks from there. And like a lot of you say on here... it becomes therapeutic and part of us/our routines.

A lot of new growers will be getting started as legalization happens in each state and this is definitely an aspect to consider.

@NoWaistedSpace That is actually an interesting idea!
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Lighting from underneath is a bad idea; the underside of the leaves isn't designed to process light.

As was mentioned above, I do vertical grows with lights on the sides; think of the lighting a tall skinny bush would get early in the morning and late in the evening... At the same time. The leaves orient themselves so they present the top light gathering surface to the lights. They look like they're droopy but they're not. The gain from this is just more square footage of canopy surface area in the same floor space.
 
H.A.F.

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
Greenthumbskunk said:
The most impressive grow talking about yield was around 10 years ago a guy from I think Ukraine had a round verticle cage that had his plants growing up the wire. Had a 600 watt bulb on a light mover going up and down the center of the cage. Had tremendous yields
Can't remember what forum it was on
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I think those were called staduim grows? It's like a sideways, 3-sided scrog. I think the thing on those were that the flowers were still all facing the light. It was a fight between them growing against gravity normally (up) and phototropism or growing towards the light. It was probably good stress for that part, but it mainly did one side of every plant and things were pulled to that side, same as a scrog but not. Your lowers got fat was the main thing because everything got the same light, and you tripled your canopy by having three 4x4-ish side canopies instead of the one top canopy all from the same square footage.

But that's not really under-canopy lighting since it was still aimed at the "tops" of the plant even though they were on the sides.

Purely opinion but I don't think having your main lights up top, and your grow focused towards that light gets any benefit from having side or floor lighting. The underside of the leaf does not photosynthesize anything, and it could cause over-lighting problems that bring out the deficient looking leaves way easier, and it's extra electricity for minimal return.

I have found that once a plant is in flower it is going to get you "X" weight of dried flower (within reason) no matter how it's trained. If it spends energy making larfy lower flowers that's energy that doesn't go to the tops. Your end weight for a plant might be exactly the same, but trimming away the larf as soon as it's identified means the make-up of that harvest will be different. Less flowers with more weight each type of thing.

Purely anecdotal but I bet it could be proven if I was given a grant and some acreage LOL
 
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SimpleJak

Tugg Speedman
The underside of plant leaves do in fact photosynthesize, I just want to clarify that. Bruce Bugbee has confirmed this (just to eliminate bro-science). It's just that the top of the leaf has more light radiation protection. It's an interesting concept. It seems as though its benefits are situational to your grow practices/space and should be mindful of DLI and energy costs to make it worth your while. It works but probably not worth most peoples while.

Here is the clip of Bruce stating this
 
H.A.F.

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
SimpleJak said:
The underside of plant leaves do in fact photosynthesize, I just want to clarify that. Bruce Bugbee has confirmed this (just to eliminate bro-science). It's just that the top of the leaf has more light radiation protection. It's an interesting concept. It seems as though its benefits are situational to your grow practices/space and should be mindful of DLI and energy costs to make it worth your while. It works but probably not worth most peoples while.

Here is the clip of Bruce stating this
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He is knowledgable but he likes to skirt around issues. What exact benefit will you see, and will it justify the initial investment of under-canopy lighting and then the electricity to run it?

Yeah they work just the same on the top and bottom!!! but... there is light protection on top, they were designed to be lit from the top, yada, yada.

He impresses me less and less, and it might be how he presents himself rather than the info - but he makes me want to look into stuff and find contradictory results.


Edited: it's also sponsored by Migro - a company that i would be willing to bet sells under-canopy lighting ;)
 
H.A.F.

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
Don't get me wrong, it's a smooth gig, and he picked the right time for it. There are few "industry experts" and if you can set yourself up as one you get to be the "peer" in "peer reviewed" and help make stuff sound more like solved science.
 
S

SimpleJak

Tugg Speedman
H.A.F. said:
Bugbee needs NASCAR style stickers on his shirt to denote all the people paying for his research.
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I agree that we should always keep some sort of skepticism and even do our own testing/research to validate the facts (We should always welcome anyone who can prove something to be wrong). I also agree with you that I wish we could have transparency as to the funding and their intentions of the investors.

I only use him as a reference because there aren't many people in the research game who are setting up "properly run" tests rather than just an observation by a home grower (which doesn't mean that home grower is wrong, they just might be less scientific, and have more variables to account for, etc). There are other studies that prove this. Any part with chlorophyll will photosynthesize, including stems. Light can also pass through layers of the leaf until the light is absorbed by chloroplasts (which contain chlorophyll) and are located in the middle of the leaf structure. Bruce just seems like the most reputable person in the cannabis world to pull info from, which is why I site him.

Here is a diagram showing that Dicots (cannabis is a dicot) have a layer on the bottom of the leaf that also contains chlorophyll. Now my theory of why I disagree and agree with what he is saying is that I do believe (of my own opinion from what i've gathered) is that the top layer does a much better job of absorbing the light, thus being more efficient. But because light can permeate through leaf layers, if the bottom of the leaf (or even top for this instance) doesnt capture all the light and some goes through that layer, the next layer is there to help collect the majority of the rest. This would explain why it seems just as affective at photosynthesis from the bottom. Its not meant for that but I think it ends up working anyways a "whole unit".

Leaf Structure Dicot.JPG

You grow some mean plants man, I wish you would go an find contradictions. I feel like your experience would give you the eye to see results fairly accurately. I always welcome anyone who can contradict a previously known fact. Truth above all!
 
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