Old Seeds won't Germ

[StonedAgeGrower]

Hey folks, so here's a little backstory on these beans I found from like 06-08.

I had to stop growing for a bit in 09, and had packed all my seeds in cold storage, aside from a small jar of packs I had misplaced, and just wrote them off. Most were off seedbay back then but a few of my own crosses too.

Moved a few times since then, and when I was cleaning out some boxes last yr, sure enough I found the jar, and theirs some killer stuff.

Over the last yr I've tried to test germ rates with some of them but so far haven't managed to get any to sprout unfortunately. I've tried scuffing, kelp soaks, fulvic acid, h2o2, cold stratification, ga3 in different concentrations, but so far nothing.

Some of these are rare and long since discontinued so I'd hate to lose all these, so I'm looking for any tips anyone might have. At this point I'm willing to try just about anything to save enough of these for a population increase

Thanks for any tips folks!

 

[StonedAgeGrower]

Here's some of what I'm trying to save

 

[SativaHeyes]

To tell you the truth a lot of these strains still exist.... unfortunately they’ve been labeled or renamed something else or similar.... nice collection btw

 

[StonedAgeGrower]

I know that some breeders have worked Casey a bit, but can mostly only find it in crosses. The pack I grew in 08 was phenomenal and had this one stashed to make F2s.

Haven't seen any of the others being used, so if you've got the scoop I'd love to know

Thanks, this only some of the more exciting stuff in the old seeds. Thankfully my current seed collection is full of nice fresh stuff

 

[StonedAgeGrower]

I know its been a while since I first posted this, but nobody's got any tricks they use on super old seeds?

Starting to think I need to learn tissue culture or at least in-vitro germination techniques to get any of these to germ.

 

[Big Terps]

Did u try scuffing them with a peice of fine grit sandpaper? Have herd people doing that b4.. Luckily ive had not to deal with this issue in yrs of growing.
Good luck

 

[H.A.F.]

I know its been a while since I first posted this, but nobody's got any tricks they use on super old seeds?

Starting to think I need to learn tissue culture or at least in-vitro germination techniques to get any of these to germ.

Listening to a lot of podcasts lately. Seems a spray with a giberillic acid solution might give then that extra boost at the beginning.

The DudeGrows show dude says he puts recharge (microbe boost) in the sprouting water to give that taproot a shot of goodies right when it cracks.
Partly sales pitch I'm sure, but has some good bro-science appeal to it...

 

[Bodyne]

URB soak
Undiluted Seed Soak: Pour a small amount of URB into a spoon or bottle cap. Set a timer for 45 minutes. Drop your seeds into the undiluted URB and start the timer. Pull seeds out of the solution at 45 minutes and proceed with normal germination techniques.

 

[H.A.F.]

Did u try scuffing them with a peice of fine grit sandpaper? Have herd people doing that b4.. Luckily ive had not to deal with this issue in yrs of growing.
Good luck

From what I understand that is for beans new and old that are extra hard to crack. It lets the water get in so the bean can germinate and it can use it's energy to bust the shell.

For older seeds it is a lack of vigor, not having enough umph to crack their own shells when they germinate even if they are viable. That needs some kind of enzyme boost in the initial water that gets in.

I also heard of using a sprout tea. Let some bagseeds or barley or something sprout tails in some water to produce those exact same enzymes you are looking for, then put that in a blender for a quick sprout tea. Strain it and use that to pop beans.

Probably falls into the 'can't hurt' category.

 

[Big Terps]

From what I understand that is for beans new and old that are extra hard to crack. It lets the water get in so the bean can germinate and it can use it's energy to bust the shell.

For older seeds it is a lack of vigor, not having enough umph to crack their own shells when they germinate even if they are viable. That needs some kind of enzyme boost in the initial water that gets in.

I also heard of using a sprout tea. Let some bagseeds or barley or something sprout tails in some water to produce those exact same enzymes you are looking for, then put that in a blender for a quick sprout tea. Strain it and use that to pop beans.

Probably falls into the 'can't hurt' category.

Ya ur right my brain was thinking of the hard to pop beans and not the germ rate.. Lol
Guess i need to read the title of thread closer..lol
When i made my sst teas id just buy a bag of bird seed from walmart. Plants responded well afterwards.
If the sst teas helps then maybe a little coconut water, or fresh aloe gel added to mix might help vigor too imo.. ? Not sure just brainstorming..? Whats ur thoughts?

 

[H.A.F.]

Ya ur right my brain was thinking of the hard to pop beans and not the germ rate.. Lol
Guess i need to read the title of thread closer..lol
When i made my sst teas id just buy a bag of bird seed from walmart. Plants responded well afterwards.
If the sst teas helps then maybe a little coconut water, or fresh aloe gel added to mix might help vigor too imo.. ? Not sure just brainstorming..? Whats ur thoughts?

I actually like the recharge idea. That said I'm not buying recharge to pop beans. But the microbe/myco thing makes sense for any seed cracking though, hard to or not. What would be a local already on hand source of that? I'm thinking a pinch of fresh worm castings might work for that, but not sure about how it would help the original problem. - can't hurt?

 

[H.A.F.]

I'm hash-high...

OK the longer version of the sales pitch was the initial root immediately being innoculated with beneficial microbes and myco's will be starting to build that colony that will then be on most of the roots as they grow out.

Really cool sounding bro-science I think. But if worm castings can do the same, or maybe a bit of the myco's I already use for repotting, or maybe there's some other microbe boost product you already use. it falls into that "can't hurt" category as long as it costs little or nothing. The beans are still getting wet and will or will not germinate regardless.

 

[StonedAgeGrower]

Listening to a lot of podcasts lately. Seems a spray with a giberillic acid solution might give then that extra boost at the beginning.

The DudeGrows show dude says he puts recharge (microbe boost) in the sprouting water to give that taproot a shot of goodies right when it cracks.
Partly sales pitch I'm sure, but has some good bro-science appeal to it...

I've tried GA3 soaks at a few different concentrations, usually 100-200 ppm, and that's the one method that would get the shells to crack and show a small root, but would never advance. I've also tried scuffing, kelp soaks, fulvic acid, and recharge as well.

I think after 10yrs stored improperly they must just be fried short of some kinda tissue culture

URB soak
Undiluted Seed Soak: Pour a small amount of URB into a spoon or bottle cap. Set a timer for 45 minutes. Drop your seeds into the undiluted URB and start the timer. Pull seeds out of the solution at 45 minutes and proceed with normal germination techniques.

Someone else suggested that to me, and Ive been following him on IG since then. Think I may have to get a bottle and give it a shot

 

[StonedAgeGrower]

From what I understand that is for beans new and old that are extra hard to crack. It lets the water get in so the bean can germinate and it can use it's energy to bust the shell.

For older seeds it is a lack of vigor, not having enough umph to crack their own shells when they germinate even if they are viable. That needs some kind of enzyme boost in the initial water that gets in.

I also heard of using a sprout tea. Let some bagseeds or barley or something sprout tails in some water to produce those exact same enzymes you are looking for, then put that in a blender for a quick sprout tea. Strain it and use that to pop beans.

Probably falls into the 'can't hurt' category.

Yeah these seeds definitely fall into the latter category. They just don't seem to have the energy to break through the shells on their own. Scuffing is only really helpful breaking the seedcoat to allow water in and break the seed dormancy.

I've pretty much accepted that these won't pop without some kind of miracle.

 

[H.A.F.]

I think after 10yrs stored improperly...

 

[StonedAgeGrower]

Yup, explained it in the first post , but lost these during a move, and found them in a box of stuff about 2018ish when I moved again. That's about 9-10 yrs they spent in a mason jar in a box of junk in my closet. No refrigeration or humidity control. Rest of my old stock was stored properly during that time thankfully.

It's some cool gear I would love to work w, otherwise these would have hit the bin when I found em

 

[Deez. Nutz]

Yup, explained it in the first post , but lost these during a move, and found them in a box of stuff about 2018ish when I moved again. That's about 9-10 yrs they spent in a mason jar in a box of junk in my closet. No refrigeration or humidity control. Rest of my old stock was stored properly during that time thankfully.

It's some cool gear I would love to work w, otherwise these would have hit the bin when I found em

You can try adding a smaller percentage of auxins to your ga3 solution, as these two pgr's often work synergistically, (based on their ratios) to break seed dormancy.

You could also try using a solution with the inclusion of DMSO. It increases the permeability of the the cells allowing for more solution to enter the embryonic tissue.

If you do attempt to go the tissue culture/micropropagation route a good reference is the book "growing plants from test tubes"

If you can grow shrooms, and have a pressure cooker, you can do it, it's not as difficult as it sounds.

 

[Nobighurry]

Listening to a lot of podcasts lately. Seems a spray with a giberillic acid solution might give then that extra boost at the beginning.

The DudeGrows show dude says he puts recharge (microbe boost) in the sprouting water to give that taproot a shot of goodies right when it cracks.
Partly sales pitch I'm sure, but has some good bro-science appeal to it...

I have tried quite a few potions recharge, kelp, etc. and have had the best response from giberellic acid a trick used by potatoe farmers doing stem cuts when developing special seed potatoes, use isopropyl alcohol, distilled water and GA try 500ppm for tough to crack seeds, scarify seeds then soak in water over night then mix 100mg of GA to 200ml of distilled water, use just enough isopropyl alcohol to dissolve your GA before adding to water GA put GA in glass tube keep adding drops of GA until dissolved (easy does it on alcohol) GA does not dissolve easy in water, add just enough solution to keep seeds wet, cross your fingers you will see tails within 48-72 hrs

 

[High kev]

I’m hoping to revive some beans from the past. Reading up here I am. My boy kept beans of everything from back in the day. I’m about to try and see.

 

[wierdly]

I have run into this too from time to time, good info.